Home Forums Climbing Talk Censorship???

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  • #2018 Reply
    George
    Guest

    Hi guys,

    Well that wasn’t quite the response i was expecting from people that are actively involved in the climbing community. The letter i wrote informing everyone of “Feed the Rat” was not in anyway a sales pitch, but merely a note for anyone that might be interested in finding out what the other half is doing. I didn’t realise CAWA was an elite community, that decided who was worthy of posting a letter on their website. I would have though with our already expansive geographical isolation that any positive interaction with other states and OS would be greatly benefitial. As your slogan says, CAWA’s purpose is to support and promote climbers and climbing in WA. Well i don’t think censorship is the way forward!!. There are some great forums that take place through this website and it is all for the benefit of the climbing COMMUNITY. So lets not turn this great resource into an elite underground club, and be open to new and different idea’s, Cheers George

    #2019 Reply
    Jarric
    Member

    hear hear

    #2020 Reply
    Toc
    Member

    Hi George,

    and anyone else who feels CAWA sees itself as some underground elite.

    We don’t.

    We’re just people, ordinary climbers who love climbing enough to put some of our money up in memberships to ensure climbing has a voice and a forum in Western Australia, and some of us, the committee put in a lot of time and effort to try and keep that happening.

    CAWA members pay for this website and anyone is free to use it. But it does say just above, “No commercial advertising”, and below that, “CAWA reserve the right to delete messages from this message board”. Up there just below, the request not to use offensive language or write abusive messages.

    In this state are a number of commercial enterprises who support CAWA by offering discounts to members, ie all of the gyms, the outdoor shops, who also support the bouldering comps and the WA Sports Climbing Comp. Outdoor and adventure companies, etc also support CAWA by buying advertising in the Western Climber, which helps pay for our newsletter.

    George, you may think it rude of the webmaster to pull your notice, but it’s nothing to the rudeness we would have been showing the businesses around this state, who support CAWA and don’t abuse the the Western Australian climbing community’s only website.

    So, if you are offended, I personally am sorry, but if you post another free ad, I also personally will support the webmaster when he deletes it.

    To all those businesses out there who do support climbing in Western Australia, my continuing thanks.

    To all those climbers out there in webland, please think about what is actually fair, and about who supports your climbing and who abuses or does not abuse, your website before you jump and give the webmaster a hard time.

    Toc Foale.

    #2021 Reply
    George
    Member

    Cheers TOC,

    Fair call, appreciate the response and keep on”Feeding.

    #2022 Reply
    Toc
    Member

    Cheers George,

    Don’t worry, I will.

    Toc.

    #2023 Reply
    Glenn
    Member

    I agree completely with Toc’s thoughts, and support the removal of this material from the web site.

    I have no interest in “feeding a rat” – the implication in the discourse that climbing is addictive is repulsive to me and is not my idea of climbing.

    #2024 Reply
    Dinah
    Member

    To all those that think CAWA is a bunch of elitest old farts;

    CAWA is there to promote climbing and climbers interests in WA. The CAWA web site message board is part of this initiative. It is a great forum for exchange of ideas and news and is widely used.

    Whether the users are CAWA members or not, they are welcome to use the site for genuine non-commercial purposes.

    However, if you (member or non-member)are bone lazy and just like to sit and moan about the way things should be according to your particular philosopy without doing anything active or constructive to help, then …..please reserve your judgement and respect the few people that are genuinely trying to do something.

    If you don’t like the way CAWA is run then come and help out and change it.

    CAWA is on the brink of falling apart from lack of interest from climbers.

    Consider one thing – land access issues. If CAWA is not around to formally represent climbers interests what do you think might be the future for climbing? Do you climb at Walcliff? If you do it is because CAWA fought to keep that crag open. Do you think one day Bobs Hollow might be closed to climbers? Maybe. Think about it. Please put things into perspective and be constructive.

    #2025 Reply
    Ross
    Member

    I agree with Toc’s defence of CAWA. George seems to think that this is some Yahoo discussion group, which is clearly not so. We have drawn a line that anything with any kind of commercial whiff does not have place here (but don’t get me wrong, capitalism is a great idea, just not on this forum). Advertisements in the Western Climber are relatively cheap and anyone can advertise there. So being on this web site is noone’s birth right, but rather a privilege, courtesy of CAWA. I wish every time anyone logs on, they said – wow, web master and CAWA, thanks a lot guys for spending hundreds of hours of your personal time to do something for no profit, no personal benefit or media glory, for us to to have a forum. Community groups such as CAWA run on volunteers. However, I do like George’s enthusiasm, as expressed in his outrage at having message removed – I have no idea what he is on about but it is good to see someone out there doing something. Dinah is spot on, we (the organised climbing community) need more active people. Government bodies are not interested in individual negotiations with dozens of tiny “friends” groups. That’s why CAWA exists, as a united front for climbing, and we would like to be as inclusive as possible, if you will have us, we will have you. Many of our members are old fogeys (and I love those old buggers) – just give it a few decades and you will be one too. All you guys/gals making comments on CAWA, I have one thing to say to you – TALK IS CHEAP.

    #2026 Reply
    George
    Member

    Cheers all for the interesting discussion!. It is great to hear such a strong arguement from people who obviuosly care about WA’s fantastic rock. I apologise for my letters “commercial advertising” theme and appreciate CAWA’s stance on the matter. My goal was to educate on some of the oppourtunities and ideas that surround “the Rat”. By the sound of it CAWA is in need of some promoting as well!.

    I for one appreciate the efforts of all involved in CAWA and will attempt to assist in the greater cause into the future.

    My membership is in the mail and your point is taken!

    Cheers George

    #2027 Reply
    John Knight
    Member

    As an infamously enthusiastic person, it’s nice to see Dinah’s view point and Ross’s too, and George has no gripe with reason anyway. It was disheartening to see the bad comments about feedtherat, and if you’re still reading George, I’ll have to tell you something.

    WA climbing is an elitist sport, unfortunately. No, that’s not fair, there are people who believe in the elite amongst WA climbers. It’s good to see you being enthusiastic, it’s not my bag really (feedtherat I mean), but obviously climbing is something ‘feeders’ would participate in.

    I’ll gladly admit to being addicted to climbing, in fact, I do everyday! One person’s reason for climbing shouldn’t justify or demote anothers. Whether you lead, toprope, gym, boulder, mountaineer, whatever, we’re all ultimately into the same thing and I think we should keep that in mind.

    Oh, Ross, Dinah and CAWA, thanks for the message board and all of your work. 😉

    #2028 Reply
    Toc
    Member

    Wow, George,

    You sure stirred the pot a little.

    Climbing does attract passionate people, well people who can be passionate about climbing anyway, is that circular?

    John, elites, Hmmm. Well I do like watching good climbers, but I’m hardly one. One of Ross’s old buggers as well, almost, ok just older than some.

    Club trips, I’ll climb with anyone, and if I lead something, I’m more than willing for any number of people to second, third, fourth etc. Quite a few of us are. In the olden days, there were no gyms and no courses, and that’s how we got to start, well at least I did, (thanks Kim Bischoff).

    However the problem is, when do the mythical club trips happen? Well we need people to run them, to organise them and to go on them. The more people willing to be part of this, the more it will happen. Where do we go? Just about anywhere within striking distance. Margeret River, Peak Charles, Kalbarri, West Cape Howe, Mt Franklin, the Stirlings plus local areas. As well, I know there’s lot’s of climbers just going climbing and that’s what it’s all about, and if the website helps them find each other, then that’s one of CAWA’s prime functions, helping climbers find each other.

    Another thing, like all volunteer organisations which depend on people having time and energy to get things done, please don’t assume because nothing seems to be happening every week, that it doesn’t or won’t. Another thing to remember is this, away trips require a little bit of self reliance. You’ll need to organise your own camping needs, (most of where we go is like that), and there’ll be people to climb with, (don’t hang back, though), and they may have more gear than some others, (it can take a long time to collect a full rack), and usually there’ll be space in a car, or someone to fill up yours. But it’s up to you to be part of it.

    The thing to remember is that the climbing community is not something you are trying to join; if you’re a climber you’re already part of it and like any other community, there are all sorts of levels of involvement, committment, skill and ability.

    The CAWA committee is well aware, that not all climbers join CAWA, and that is actually fair enough, but please remember, we did lose Wallcliffe, and CAWA members fought to get it back, right up to dealing with government ministers. There are interests who would be happy to ban climbing in other areas, or if not ban it, just not think about it. Because there is a central body, CAWA, land managers have someone to deal with, someone to ask questions off, and someone who will stand up and say “Hey, we climb there, and we want to keep doing it”.

    Does any of this rave strike a chord, because I’ll tell you something about the world. Regardless of what various people say about CAWA, merited or otherwise, if it disappeared, sooner or later, somebody would have to re-invent something very similar, just to hang on to or recover what we presently have.

    Happy climbing to all,

    Toc.

    By the way, at the quiz night at Rosie O’Grady’s I’ll be the guy up the front asking the questions.

    #2029 Reply
    Ross
    Member

    Jesus, Toc, you do talk a good game….how about you turn up at a crag again, sometime ?

    #2030 Reply
    Neil
    Member

    John – WA climbing elitist !!!!

    What a croc. I think Toc said it:

    “The thing to remember is that the climbing community is not something you are trying to join; if you’re a climber you’re already part of it and like any other community, there are all sorts of levels of involvement, committment, skill and ability.”

    #2031 Reply
    Andrew
    Member

    What I think John meant it that there is a facet of the WA climbing community is elitist.

    It can be hard to ‘join’ the climbing community, especially when you dont climb in the same place every week. hmm must join the CAWA.

    #2032 Reply
    Toc
    Member

    Hey all,

    Commiserations John, I know the feeling in a way. I’ve climbed with my feet hanging out of my shoes for exactly the same reason.

    Ross, I promise I’ll be out on the rock again as soon as I don’t have to work seven days a week.

    Elitists. What you do with elitists who won’t climb with you, is you don’t climb with them. You miss out on climbing with someone with their head bent round exploring their nether regions, and they miss out on climbing with a genuine human being. Guess who loses. Works for me.

    Cheers all.

    #2033 Reply
    John Knight
    Member

    Yeah, that’s what I meant, should have used punctuation a bit more clearly I think. 😉 There are a lot of stuck up people in WA, climbing wise, probably because we’re less developed, but then you get really cool people like Diane, Dan, Guy, etc, and Ross who I’ve warmed to. 😉

    #2034 Reply
    Grant
    Member

    Far out – I was just downloading an application form for CAWA (not that I can really climb) – and started reading this – between “Toc”, “John” and “George” – am I qualified enough to join CAWA? – I do a lot of belay climbing with my wife and used to be an abseiling instructor but wanted to learn lead climbing but elitist is something I am not – am thinking maybe I should a day care group instead???

    #2035 Reply
    Toc
    Member

    Hi Grant,

    Of course you’re qualified. They let me in.

    Cheers,

    Toc.

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