Home Forums Climbing Talk Dena's post on Kalbarri

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  • #155789 Reply
    Remi
    Guest

    Comments about my response to Dena’s post on Kalbarri have been posted on the different forums. There are not centralized in one place so please browse through each of those links if you want to participate in the discussion:
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/327147124008808/ (Slapping Rock in WA – the most popular so far)
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/9090447307/ (Perth Rock Climbing)
    https://www.facebook.com/climberswa/ (CAWA Facebook)
    https://www.climberswa.asn.au/topic/kalbarri-developments/ (CAWA Website – monitored / takes a day or so to get released)

    Thank you
    Remi

    #155798 Reply
    Remi
    Guest

    Thank you for voicing your support to maintaining access to camping in Kalbarri on the diverse forum above. I have suggested for an AGM to be called earlier (before the end of November) on the “Slapping Rock in WA” Facebook group. 18 CAWA members (10% of the total membership) need to call for the meeting. If you are in favour, put your name down on the Facebook group “Slapping Rock in WA” (where the most comments and likes are found) or here if Facebook is not your thing…

    Remi

    #155811 Reply
    Peter Thomas (Committee Member)
    Guest

    I’m not on Facebook, however I have heard from several people about the content of the links above. I understand much of it is less about the original camping question, but more around inappropriate stuff of a somewhat personal, attacking nature. To the few who have posted such stuff, be aware you can hurt people – and have done. Please, let’s try to maintain a culture of climbers showing respect, humanity and (where it’s due) gratitude. CAWA’s president has for several years worked long hours doing a great job for CAWA and the wider climbing community, with zero pay (obviously) and not exactly an overdose of thanks. She has my full support – and appreciation. Of course there is a lot more CAWA could do – if only “activist” climbers would be prepared to commit time and energy in the same way.
    Cheers, Peter.
    PS: As for the Committee addressing the camping question, see latest update/comment attached to original post.
    PPS: This is a personal post from me, not in my capacity as a Committee member. But rest assured the Committee is functioning fine (albeit with some overseas right now!), and is able to consider Kalbarri and any other matters without dramas.

    #155814 Reply
    Ross Weiter
    Guest

    Yeah, well said Pistol Pete. I have read some of the facebook stuff. To those who conflate Kalbarri and Walcliffe and say “why CAWA does nothing about Wallcliffe” I say ask not what CAWA can do for climbing but what you (yes YOU) can do for climbing: complain on facebook or actually spend dozens of your time bringing Wallcliffe back? Words are cheap but opinions don’t matter. Only actions matter. I have led the previous Wallcliffe campaign in the 90s and we won. It took a hundred hours of my time, many letters, an on site demo, and a hearing in front of the Parliamentary Commission on Local Legislation. This time it would be harder since the place was declared native heritage site…..probably by white people with vested interests. Sounds like fun? Yes?? Time for some new people to step up, no? Don’t let me stop you.

    #155815 Reply
    Dena
    Guest

    Thanks Pete and Ross.

    Only a 100 hours of your time Ross? I suspect it may have been much more than that.

    As for Wallcliffe, the situation was explained very clearly, has nothing to do with DPaW and if CAWA didn’t alert climbers to the issue, then the new SW guide was going to. And then would come the question, oh but why didn’t CAWA know about it? Well, CAWA did find out about it and put a call out to climbers to form a group to fight for access if they cared enough and that we could provide some guidance.

    The silence was deafening.

    #155817 Reply
    Willy The Wallaby
    Guest

    I have always boasted that my fellow community of climbers was a supportive group of good people who looked out for each other. This week I am saddened to see reactive comments in social media that essentially placed the blame of DPaW no longer accepting registrations for overnight stays in the above mentioned area, on CAWA’s president. Many comments were very vilifying. I believe that personal and public vilification of anyone is not a productive way to seek a resolution to any problem. Personal cyber-bullying is certainly not flattering to the character of the bullies either. We the WA climbing community (CAWA members and non-members) can be better than this.

    I am not suggesting that climbers should not voice their opinions. Being a voice for climbing and climbers is important, as is discussing all matters that effect climbing in WA. Surely opinions and suggestions could be directed towards the issue at hand rather than becoming a mean public dissection of a single person (Dena).
    Perhaps those who feel that CAWA should fix this for them could get more actively involved in CAWA. It is positive to see that this may be happening.

    A recent facebook post implied that CAWA have not been as effective as the British Mountaineering Council in protecting crag access for climbers. The BMC has 600 active volunteers, specialist committees, an executive committee, many members and 26 PAID staff! CAWA is run by volunteers who donate their time to benefit the small but important community of WA climbers.

    Let’s endeavor to resolve any issues with mature, appropriate and respectful communication. Let’s use appropriate channels to work together and find practical and/or creative solutions to these problems. It may be worth mentioning that the published article provided contact details so that anyone with queries could discuss the situation further. I would also suggest that the online CAWA forum is perhaps a more appropriate avenue than facebook for such heated discussions?

    At the risk of inciting further angry responses, can I please cautiously ask: Should we be prioritizing climber’s access to this area before knowing the possible impacts of human behavior on this Black Flanked Rock Wallaby population? Simply doing what we always have done, before knowing the impact of our behaviors seems somewhat naive to me.

    #155819 Reply
    Kylie (also a committee member)
    Guest

    I for one think that public debates about issues are healthy, but I’m saddened at how off-track things have become and how horrible some of the comments on the Slapping Rock Facebook site are about individuals as well as the committee. It doesn’t make one feel particularly motivated to continue to VOLUNTEER one’s time. Having said that, I get that just because you voice an opinion doesn’t mean you have to subsequently join the committee, but how about a little bit of common courtesy folks? And how about people give the committee a bit of time and stop demanding that things happen yesterday just because of their own personal holiday timeframes? This is an important issue but it’s not the most important issue in my life or the lives of the other committee members, I’m sure.

    As Pete has said, there is a lot more CAWA can do, and I think there is a lot of learning taking place here.

    #155821 Reply
    Chris
    Guest

    I’ve been a bit disappointed at the criticism directed at CAWA and Dena too.

    After the discovery of the wallabies, I can’t see why it is unreasonable for DPaW to ban camping down there. The climbing community should have conservation as a priority… not just because most of us are conservationists, but also because we will always loose access to climbing in conservation areas if we don’t have this attitude! If DPaW actually said “… the large numbers of climbers camping in such a small area is having a negative impact on the environment”, then who are we to argue? They are the managers. It is CAWA’s responsibility to be a part of the management process… not argue or protest against the expert opinions of DPaW. I am an ecologist, and have been visiting the area for a few years now, and frankly I agree 100% with that statement. Furthermore, if the rangers are going to make a decision to change a policy that relates to climbers, who should they contact? CAWA of course! Just because some people have built a personal relationship with DPaW at Kalbarri, doesn’t entitle them to consultation. CAWA has made it pretty clear previously that camping in the gorge should not be taken for granted, and has left it to the climbers to change their behaviour, which seemed mostly ignored (by me as well).

    I am also very happy to hear that CAWA are fighting for legal camping in the car park. That seems to be the obvious solution.

    Having never been part of the committee myself, but having many friends who are active committee members, I have seen the hard work they do. We should be (I am) grateful that we have people who are willing to do this stuff because most of them have professions and families, and are VOLUNTEERING their free time.

    #155822 Reply
    George
    Guest

    I am curious why people are posting constructive comments under daft names?. Willy the wallaby!?…really!.

    #155825 Reply
    Mick
    Guest

    I have been watching the debate over the last few days with interest on this forum as well as on fb (through a friend). Through all the emotion I can see some valid points and sincerely hope that a robust, constructive and informed discussion can take place between CAWA and concerned climbers to work out a way forward not just for the short term, but for the longer term as well. I don’t see that all is lost, I see that an outcome of all of this could be a framework for CAWA to work within in years to come when it is working proactively with other stakeholders and advocating for climbing access. An agreed strategy. But both sides of the argument need to listen to each other. I can see the attraction to camping in the gorge but I can also see why there is so much concern. And on another note peeps, no-one is perfect, I’m sure every single member of the CAWA committee is doing their level best and I have no doubt that they all want what is best for the whole of the climbing community. After all, they are part of it.

    At the end of the day, you’re never going to please everyone, but it goes a long way if everyone plays nicely.

    I also don’t get why people pose as animals when they post.

    #155828 Reply
    kymodo the dragon
    Guest

    Yea I saw the post and a few of the following comments, couple there a bit cringe worthy for sure. Some lacking perspective, some forethought, some both! I have nothing against the authors but do agree, some should stick to climbing rocks and not throwing rocks 😉
    There seems something positive could come of it all tho! A bit of awareness, better communication and a lot of good comments above. Wonder if anyone will man up and apologize 😉

    Sorry to George and Mick, I couldn’t help myself.

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