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Warning: Three bolts of the 3rd pitch of Dinosaur Jr at Gilbraltar Rock are substandard diameter (7-8mm) and most probably short in length (my guess is 5-6cm). The bolt heads are too small to keep the bolt plates in place. The second bolt (on Pitch 3) sticks out by about 25mm. I would understand if these were put in twenty years ago but they seem all recent so be warn if you jump on some of Tim Ball & co’s recent routes as their bolting practice can be different to what one would like to see.
Let’s try posting the images again:
1st bolt:
1st bolt can fit three plates to keep them in place:
2nd bolt:
Cheers remi I think I will give that one a miss .those carrots have been smashed so hard they have bent the heads on them .metal fatigue is a killer.
In the next Poro miniguide, let’s give the route FA to whomever re-bolts it properly. I think that would be the only way to stop this sort of cheap-ass selfish crap from going on.
Let us not give the FA to the first person To re-bolt the route. Fair enough some bolts are dodgy, these people did however spend their own time and money to expand climbing in WA.
There are plenty of climbs around WA with dodgy bolts. Unfortunately this climb has few. This is however a great climb and pitch three is fairly straight forward climbing.From memory I believe there was a couple of spots for pro on this pitch. I am quite surprised with pitch three’s bolts as the fourth pitch did not seem to have any problem bolts, I did not thoroughly inspect, measure and photograph the bolts as I was climbing though.
I agree that those dodgy bolts should be re-bolted, at the same time maybe see what other climbs in the area need a new bolt or two. Maybe Dockyard Wall could use another bolt for the belay out from the cave? Or do people use the new looking bolts just below the cave system?
Does anyone want to volunteer to replace the few bolts?
Given TB’s carrots are terrible. And his expansion’s are known to fall out or be easily removed with a screw driver ?!?!!?!
I would be extremely suspicious of his glue in bolts.If you have that sort of bolt quality workmanship you should stay home. Simple.
I would like to think that all bolts are placed as per all manufacturers’ specifications. That includes every thing from hole diameter, depth, torque etc. In reality this likely does not happen.
There is a wealth of info out there, the different manufacturers’ product specifications, climbing websites etc. instead of suggesting people stay at home, would it be better if we suggest people get more experience and improve on their workmanship before bolting any more routes? Possibly if someone knows the person in particular they can speak to them directly?
So the issue is that climbs have been identified that need fixing. I like to climb down south and would feel better knowing that the route I choose will have solid bolts.
With this issue identified, how does everyone suggest the issue be resolved? Is anyone who considers themselves a qualified bolter willing to replace the dodgy bolts?
It would be a shame if Dinosaur Jnr was left un-climbed due to a few bolts that can be easily replaced at such a low cost. The last pitch was very nice and quite pleasant. I would like to see more people down that way on some of the great climbs WA has to offer.
In reality people will bolt what they want, how they want. I believe everyone has a right to place bolts and set new routes, as long as it is done in a safe enough manner, with right knowledge and in with an ethical approach. Hats off to all of those who dedicate their time to create climbs in WA.
The question still remains. How is the issue of numerous unsafe bolts at Gibraltar Rock going to be rectified?
Nat, it would be difficult to ask someone to volunteer to go and fix all this. It takes probably three times as long to fix a route than it takes to bolt it well in the first place (removal, re-bolting and patching). For this reason, I’d rather NOT see new development.
According to the Gibb mini-guide, 12 of those pitches were bolted on lead so that “kind of” explains the choice of either poor bolt placements and the lack of time/energy to drill proper holes. However, the result is against “CAWA Code of Bolting and New Route Development” (article 7) with Bash-in carrots, <8mm diameter bolts, shower curtain size rappel rings (<3mm) at the top of Pitch 4…
I would recommend to at least bolt routes while on a fixed rope and assess the terrain before choosing where to drill. If there is a strong desire to lead new routes ground up, one could consider soloing it and then rap down and place some solid bolts… I’m sure energy will be saved compare to drilling on the way up 😉 Also, bolter should only carry with him bolts recommended by Safer Cliffs Australia.
I have indirect contact with Tim but I heard that he will be fixing Dinosaur Jr soon. Hopefully we’ll hear an update here in the next few weeks.
Until then, be warn and perhaps just climb Raven 10 times in a day!
To rebolt it would be a huge effort. You either climbing it and lug all your gear up, or rap down.
Cliffs are not the forum for people to experiment and see if they can bolt or not. TB’s efforts have been substandard before. Sounds like he has also installed substandard abseil rings at anchors. This is just a joke.Bolting on lead and putting in substandard bolts is a pathetic excuse. It’s just contrived danger from laziness. What if someone did hurt themselves ?
I am not condoning his method of bolting. However if he is going to replace those bolts then that is good news (as long as they are done well).
It may not be considered easy to remove those bolts, it does however achieve more than talking about how bad they are.
It is good that some dodgy bolts have been identified and they are being replaced. I have seen worse bolts around perth that I would like to see replaced.
Thanks for the warning remi.and pics.. Looks like old mate must have dropped his hammer and tried to tap it in with his shlong..
Thanks for the warning remi.and pics.. Looks like old mate must have dropped his hammer and tried to tap it in with his shlong..
As a matter of interest, what picture format works on this site? I’ve tried attaching pictures and like Remi’s they make little boxes.
Bolting on lead is the worst possible way to bolt: the leader places bolts without knowing where the route should optimally go, does not have good stances to place gear, cannot carry heavy tools like drill and glue gun on anything but the easiest slabs (and hence must hand drill, using hooks or similar to stay on) . It has only been done on massive faces, which are difficult to abseil, and that is in the past. Even El Cap gets rapped TOP To BOTTOM these days to place bolts on abseil.
If anybody else contemplates this, please don’t. ALWAYS rap the route, climb it with a chest ascender a few times, there are many commercial products to do this safely (eg Petzl BASIC, which I use in combo with a chest harness), climb it once or twice, mark the bolts, climb it again to see if the bolts are in the right place, then bolt it. Don’t use bash in carrots. Although every type of bolt installation can be stuffed up (nothing is fool proof because fools are so ingenious), carrots can be stuffed up easier than anything else.
OK, it is a bit of a spray but having bolted over 100 bolted routes in WA and overseas over the last 20 years, I know what I am talking about.
If you are going to bolt a route, and produce a mini guide (Gibb Rock Guide) with the intent of encouraging people to climb your routes, then DO A PROPER JOB.
if Tim Ball has placed crap, then he should get out there and fix up his mess.
Would be good to hear from Tim as this is twice his name has come up in relation to questionable bolting practices?.
FYI people Tim Ball has fixed up the dodgy bolts on Dino Jnr, with expansion bolts and fixed hangers.
There is also an extra bolt on High Plains Drifter for the belay at the start, and a set of anchors directly below the second pitch anchors of Dino Jnr so it is possible to rap straight down. Or you can walk off.Thanks Tim, good man.
Scramble pitch top of Dinosaur Junior to top pitch Crystal Method?
