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just a query to throw out to everyone…
when leading a climb if you fall on the first few moves of a climb before getting in the first peice of protection.., but then climb without any falls from the moment you get your first piece in…is the climb a redpoint or onsight…?
any thoughts…
It’s a redpoint. To score an onsight, you have to do the entire climb without falls, first time on it, without having seen anyone else on any of the climb AND without any beta. If you’ve seen someone else on the climb, or you have beta (like ‘there’s a hidden jug out left at the third bolt’) then you lose the onsight and it’s a flash.
Technically, a redpoint is when you get a climb clean, after having worked it (or even just fallen on it once), AND placing all your gear on that attempt. If you clip pre-placed gear, you’ve got a pinkpoint.
But that’s all being technical! I don’t consider that I’ve ticked a climb unless I lead it clean, placing all my gear on that attempt. Others think it’s fine to clip gear that they have placed on previous LEAD attempts, and some people are happy clipping gear that they placed on toprope attempts or while abseiling down. It all depends on your personal ethics.
Anyone else with other opinions??
Why do you have to place all your gear? Or am I breathing too much into your words?
John-
I think the point is that if you lead a climb and place all your gear while doing so, then it was ‘harder’ than if the gear was already there and you just clipped it (hence the difference between a redpoint and a pinkpoint for those who make the distinction).
To me a redpoint means that I can rock up to a climb and just do it- so if I can’t lead it clean while placing my gear then I’m not satisfied with that. But as mentioned before that’s just my personal ethics and others disagree!
If you watch any of the climbing DVDs you’ll notice that almost all of the footage is of people who are clipping into pre-placed gear- but who am I to argue with someone leading a 5.14d that they didn’t technically redpoint it!! It just means I have even more respect for anyone who can onsight at that level!! (Sharma I believe?)
Oh, sorry, I mis-read that. I read it as “place all your gear”, as in “take everything off your equipment rack”, rather than “all gear’s been whacked on by muggins here”.
Dumb me! ^_^
nice to see some dicussion…
nice points Diane..
knew it was technically a redpoint but thought i would raise the point to generate some chat in here…and you never know someone might have given me a basis for claiming an onsight…grins
and at the risk of getting labelled a bumbly i was refering to the climb March on Russia down at pinjarra…beautiful layback boulder problem start…
happy climbing
