Home Forums First Ascents Carrots?

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  • #6955 Reply
    Elliot
    Member

    I’ll put in my two cents to help out.

    #6956 Reply
    Emil
    Member

    LOLZ, reading all that helped pass an arvo at work. I do rate some of the RossCott’s routes though – The Wiz, Carbon Dogs and Bull’s are great for their grade.

    Ill put carrots and GIMBs in the same basket though – I just detest fiddling a hanger on a bolt while having my calves quiver.

    Keep up the polemic yo! There’s still 3 working hours to burn.

    #6957 Reply
    Elliot
    Member

    “while having my calves quiver”

    Nothing wrong with a bit of Elvis legs 😉

    #6958 Reply
    Shannon
    Member

    hey guys I have a line that needs bolting at the moment, it is not chipped or glued, I have bolts (not carrots or GIMB’s)and glue and it will go at roughly 25, BUT I need to get my hands on a drill. So anyone on this thread who is sick of carrots like to loan/rent me one this weekend (even for a morning) so I can add a decent climb to Perth repetoire?

    If anyone can help my number is 0415100710

    cheers

    #6959 Reply
    Emil
    Member

    We have a petrol one that we’re selling if you’re looking at buying one. You could try it out this weekend if you want. Give a call on 0447929761 if you’re keen.

    #6960 Reply
    Richard W
    Member

    Remember that with all this communication with regards to standards being put in place with bolt types used in WA, we also need to consider standards in glue types used as well. Obviously a good bolt placed with bad glue is also bad! I think we need to remember that classic routes take time to bolt properly. We need to take our time and do the job well – once!

    #6961 Reply
    ed nepia
    Member

    agree 100%

    #6962 Reply
    David
    Member

    I hope you know what you are doing Shannon !

    As richard points out – just using p-bolts doesn’t make it safe.

    There is far more danger in putting in poor glue in bolts if you don’t know what you are doing.

    #6963 Reply
    ed nepia
    Member

    ahh so you do care about the safety of bolts afterall….

    #6964 Reply
    Shannon
    Member

    The route I am going to bolt will be done properly, I have played on it a few times on top rope and worked out where I need tothe bolts in relation to moves and safety for deckout potential. Have got some nice solid bolts that are up to spec and have a glue very similar in composition to re-500 and basically made for the purpose. I am certainly not rushing this and intend to make this very safe and very climbable. The drill I had intended to use is in for repair and am waiting on the outcome but seeing as there is a long weekend coming up I was hoping to use the time to bolt the route and then hit it the following weekend.

    #6965 Reply
    Richard W
    Member

    Hi Shannon,

    What sought of glue was it again?

    #6966 Reply
    Neil
    Member

    Hi Shannon,

    If you are around next weekend i will come out with a drill and you (I have a drill). I am not sure of your background but it never hurts to have some tips on glueing if you have not done it before.

    This weekend we are down at margs rebolting and chipping things down to my level so i will be busy as its all harder than grade 18 there. i.e there is lots of chipping to do.

    Seriously though; make sure you are 100% confident in the glue before doing anything at a cliff. In your post you do not sound super confident about your glue – otherwise you would have mentioned what it was ? (Not trying to have a go at you there). Glue ins are not fool proof. This time last year glue ins were replaced at Bob’s due to the poor glue that was used originally.

    RE500 is the best of the best. If you want to “buy” what you need from me I am happy for that to be arranged. Judging by most of the posts on this page – only the best should be used. Therefore you should go for a glue that is proven and the bolts should be installed with the appropriate experience – which you may have I do not know. I can only offer to help.

    As for the rest of the posts – agree with Emil. Most value here is that it helps to pass the day !

    And Richard – sorry left my mobile at home. Don’t need the hilti (got another drill to use). Good luck with the knee !

    yay for rock climbing.

    and double yay for the internet.

    #6967 Reply
    Richard W
    Member

    I’m 100% with hilti RE 500 thankyou. It’s been proven in many rock types around the world. It’s you who have not mentioned what glue you intend on using. I’m sure you have had time to look at the SCWA re-bolting site where the glue types used are listed. What is the glue you intend on using?

    #6968 Reply
    Toc
    Member

    Carrots are banned on DEC land.

    Bolts are to be placed to CAWA guidelines, (DEC’s decision), and CAWA guidelines do not include carrots, (but they do allow GIMBs, P bolts and good quality expansion bolts.

    Cheers,

    Toc.

    #6969 Reply
    Richard W
    Member

    So Toc, how do you suggest we get through to people like the carrot boys to stop placing them? Maybe we should all join the rabbit guy in pulling carrots! It seems Matt and Jim are simply enciting bad feeling in the climbing community with their use of carrots and then fire the situation up more by calling them “carrot” this and “carrot” that. Could we get DEC involved?

    #6970 Reply
    Shannon
    Member

    Sorry thought I had given the name, the glue is called Sika Anchor 1. Has not been used in WA much but has a lot of use in NZ. It is very strong and suited to the purpose.

    So if carrots are banned on DEC land, does that just include the quarries or all crown land?

    #6971 Reply
    Shannon
    Member

    Richard, I do appreciate the offer of helping me the other night, was just hoping to make the most of the long weekend and you said you were not back for another week or more. cheers

    #6972 Reply
    Richard W
    Member

    No problems Shannon. My fault – mixed up the post from Neil as yours. All good!

    #6973 Reply
    Richard W
    Member

    Here’s some info on sika – any comments from other bolters?

    http://www.sika.com.au/cmc/Datasheets/tds/SikaAnchorfix1_tds.pdf

    #6974 Reply
    Kris
    Member

    Go for it Shannon.

    With my lack of ability i probably will never actually successfully climb your project but i’ll have crack.

    The glue specs seem fine. One question though. It states Sika glue can handle prolonged temps of 50C. I’m no expert but i’m sure the rock in the quarries has well exceeded 50C, i have the burns to prove it. Do you reckon this is a drama? I would say far less a concern than a bashed in carrot what with expansion and contration of rock?

    Reckon it works really well in NZ because its always bloody cold there.

    Also Shannon, if you ingest it remember not to Vomit, just drink a glass of water.

    Wicked

    #6975 Reply
    Shannon
    Member

    Kris Once cured it handles the temp well, just have to give it time to set with the temps lower. Who know, it may go lower than 24/25, was just a feeling I go when checking holds and bolt placements. Cheers

    #6976 Reply
    Neil
    Member

    Yes, I do have some comments.

    Shannon and others. Please consider the following carefully when selecting the glue.

    I believe the Sikaanchor1 is inferior in a significant way to RE500 and I suggest you re-consider your glue selection; especially given the many posts proposing to only use the “best possible solution”. The following are fact i.e from the product literature (except *, coz strangely hilti don’t mention WA climbing in their product literature….)

    RE500 Advantages:

    1) Proven in WA*

    2) High weather resistance

    3) Can be used with moisture

    4) Only requires 24 hours to cure to full strength

    5) MASSIVELY stronger than SikaAnchorfix1.

    83MPa Compressive Strength

    43MPa Tensile Strength

    SikaAnchorfix1 Advantages:

    1)Its cheaper than RE500

    SikaAnchorfix1 Problems:

    1) No mention of suitability for use in a moist environment. RE500 is suitable for use in a moist environment. SikaAnvhorfix3 can NOT be installed with moisture – a serious problem as all holes in natural rock have moisture inside them. I quote the product literature: “The drill hole can be humid but not wet. No presence of water under pressure during curing.”. I bet any geotypes out there would say water is highly likely to be present in the rock during curing…. You should confirm if this limitation applies to SikaAnchorfix1.

    2) Requires 7 days to cure to full strength.

    6) PISSWEAK strength.

    50MPa Compressive Strength

    7MPa Tensile Strength

    Please tell me I looked at the wrong table…!

    Do not use a glue that is 6 times weaker in tension than the WA preferred glue. The tensile strength of the glue will relate very strongly to the pull out load limit on the bolt so I do believe it is a fair interpolation to say that weaker tensile strength leads to a weaker shear strength and hence a PISSWEAK bolt compared to what it should be. Especially 6 times weaker in tension i.e pullout !!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Consultation with the recommended load tables in the literature strongly confirms the relative strength differences.

    #6977 Reply
    Neil
    Member

    gee i’m a plonker.

    forgot to tell you about the main problem.

    Sikaanchor1 is a polyester glue (i.e Hyundia – at best !!!).

    Hilti Re500 is an epoxy glue (i.e Ferrari).

    #6978 Reply
    Shannon
    Member

    So if that is the general consensus I am back to my origional problem of needing a drill and now a caulking gun that can handle the hilti 2 pack…

    #6979 Reply
    Richard W
    Member

    Shannon – obviously have both. Will call you when I’m heading back to Perth. Hopefully not too long!!

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