- This topic has 13 replies, 2 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 3 months ago by Dan.
- 14 September 2009 at 12:00 am #7757Mark.KGuest
Been experimenting with setting up an ‘equalette’ style anchor setup system and I am finding a lot of twist when tying the clove hitches. Does anyone else have a similar issue? Any way to avoid it.14 September 2009 at 12:00 am #7758ed nepiaKeymaster
why do you use clove hitches?
if its a cordelette, webbing whatever just clip the various pieces into loops and tie it all off with one large knot oriented toward the load14 September 2009 at 12:00 am #7759Mark.KKeymaster
I have been reading John Long & ?whats his name? 2nd Ed Climbing Anchors.
There are 3 styles of setting up an equalised powerpoint. Cordalette, Sliding-X and Equalette.
I understand the principles behind the Cordalette and Sliding-X. I am trying to come to grips with the equalette.
It uses a loop or cord similar to a cordalette but uses each line individually with a clove hitch and the powerpoint is tied off differently too.
I find the clove hitches generates a lot of twist in the lines.14 September 2009 at 12:00 am #7760ed nepiaKeymaster
sliding x is pretty redundant these days due to unacceptable shock loaing if one anchor fails, you can mitigate that by tying knots between the powerpoint and each anchor but thats messy, uses more rope and is slow to setup.14 September 2009 at 12:00 am #7761ed nepiaKeymaster
teh limitations of a cordalette system are that if the loops are uneven length, or single and double strands then they will stretch differently and therefore load somewhat unequally
a useful alternative to clove hitches is tie to the farthest anchor with a fig 8 or fig 9, with the rope from that anchor then connect to nearer anchors with an alpine butterfly. This is fast to setup and very strong
cordalettes are really good, more versatile then long webbing slings, cheap and extremely strong
havnt seen the equaltte thing is it cord or webbing?14 September 2009 at 12:00 am #7762David WyndhamKeymaster
@ed, the book Mark is referring to has a lot to say on the issue of shock-loading, and tying limiter knots. It is from lab testing of these sorts of systems that the equalette was born. It uses the same piece of cord you would use for a cordelette, just tied differently. I recommend reading the book, it is very in depth, copies can be found here
@Mark, I haven’t tried tying an equalette myself in the field but I can picture the issues you are having. Clove hitches by their nature will twist the rope, I’m not sure there is much you can do to avoid this. The longer the loops are the less of an issue the twists will be. I agree with ed though that you could always tie Alpine butterflies instead, or directional Fig-8s. I know John uses clove hitches in the book, but I don’t see that you have to.14 September 2009 at 12:00 am #7763Mark.KKeymaster
I think he uses clove hitches for ease of adjustment. I will keep experimenting.
Mark.K14 September 2009 at 12:00 am #7764ed nepiaKeymaster
a really worthwhile link on this subject,14 September 2009 at 12:00 am #7765colin mKeymaster
what rope material are you using ? if you are using narrow diameter spectra/dyneema then give standard 7mm perlon ago. It tends to be softer and more flexible for clove hitches and twisting can be less of a problem.14 September 2009 at 12:00 am #7766ed nepiaKeymaster
spot on colin , 7mm is the go15 September 2009 at 12:00 am #7767David WyndhamKeymaster
@ed, that looks like an excellent pdf, thanks for the link, will have to read it fully. Just from a quick flick, I can see obvious twisting of the rope in a lot of the pictures where clove hitches are involved, so it looks like my hunch was correct and it’s just something to live with.15 September 2009 at 12:00 am #7768Mark.KKeymaster
I am using 7mm Eldrid Cord purchased on Saturday 🙂 Would that make it perlon?
Its new so I guess that where some of the stiffness comes from.
I am doing this in prep for the AO lead climbing course coming up.15 September 2009 at 12:00 am #7769colin mKeymaster
the fact you purchased it on a Saturday would suggest its Perlon.
7mm is quite chunky/over engineered for climbing spectra and would defeat the weight/bulk advantage. I would think its non spectra. In fact, there is a variety between different ‘brands’ of cord when it comes to handling, knots etc. Get yourself along to the course and ask Qs there.
Learn all anchor techniques and understand the pros and cons of each. In the end, its up to you to decide the best option.15 February 2012 at 6:53 am #12257DanGuest
I know that this is a really old thread, but I’ve seen the issue of “clove hitches twist the rope too much” too often.
There are two ways of tying clove hitches, which are mirror images of each other. Tie one one way and the other the other way and they cancel each other out.