I agree with those so called “hardmen”. A route should be graded for the redpoint. Many times someone works up to a grade until they tick the route or boulder problem. At this stage they are fitter and stronger and climbing the grade. The holds have not got any bigger, no magic rests have appeared. The fact that they have knowledge of the route helps them but the fact they have the potential to climb that grade is there. Onsighting simply means you have the potential to climb several grades harder if you had the patience to put in the time and effort to work a route. Onsighting is a good feeling but not as good as ticking a route above your limit that you have put time and effort into, a route that becomes personal.

It’s about time we get some consitancy in grades of around WA. Looking at 24’s…

Heavy Petting – Kalbarri

Fuck the law – Kalbarri

Fun love and Joy – Wallclife

Hang Ten – Mt Quarry

Heavy Metal – Willy

Turbo Crack – Hardy Rd

There is at least 2 grade differences between some of these… What are the thoughts of a blanket regrading of WA climbs to get them in perspective not only with the rest of WA but the rest of Australia?

Ooooh, I love this subject. Here’s what i think:

Heavy Petting – Kalbarri – 22

Fuck the law – Kalbarri – (no comment havnt done it for ages)

Fun love and Joy – Wallclife – 22/23

Hang Ten – Mt Quarry – 23

Heavy Metal – Willys – 23

Turbo Crack – Hardy Rd – 24 if your fingers are less than 1.5cm in girth, 25 if greater.

Thrutching the Bison – Kalbarri – 22

Kyle – Wallcliff – 21

Llama arete – Hardy Rd – Solid 23 esp O/S

Dear Anon2. Rather than training in a gym all the time (which does help you improve) it is possible to get on routes which are above your level and by working them improve your grip strength, body tension and technique. I am well aware of muscle memory which does play a part in a redpoint of a worked route and also in training such as the few who do laps on cardiofunk at Mt Quarry. This is a grade 29 which is easily lapped by those that do not onsight 29 but the training with the use of muscle memory is great for power endurance. From my experience you are definetely fitter and stronger when you finally get the route.

As for Emils grading – Very Harsh – but maybe this critcism is what some routes need.

I agree with Emil – the grade depends on a bit more than whether its an onsight or a redpoint, but in general grading based on a redpoint is correct IMO.

Heavy Petting – 22

Fuck the law – easy 25

Fun love and Joy – Wallclife – 23

Hang Ten – Mt Quarry – 24

Heavy Metal – straightforward 24

Turbo Crack – hard 24.

Thrutching the Bison – 22

Kyle – 21ish

Llama arete – Solid 23

These kind of issues make climbing so interesting. If all gr23’s felt the same then that would take a fair bit of the attraction away from climbing. Likewise, different climbers will all have different opinons wrt what grade it is. The actual grade the climb is given should be a rough concensus of this.

A grade is based on a general concensus that a climbis of a similar difficulty of another climb in a similar style.

Personally grades can be used as a benchmark for personal growth and achievement…to measure progress and also as a guide….if for example you climb grade 20 you can walk up to other grade 20 climbs and should have a fair amount of sucess.

As far as grading for redpoint or onsight…does it really matter…it doesnt change the difficulty of the climb…it only shows the appreximate relation of the difficulty of that climb in relation to other climb of a similar grade..whether the climb is graded 22 or 24 the difficulty of that particular climb wont change.

One final note there will always be differing opinions of how difficult a climb is and give or take a grade or two its really academic…depending on the style of the climb (slab, face, overhang, crack) and how you are performing on the day you may find a climb harder or easier or about right to the given grade.

So just leave it alone or if a climb is way out adjust it by common consensus.

What about White Witches on the Cross at Peak Head ? (c/w vulcan grip!)

I wonder if anyone has onsighted Llama Arete….. That climb has also benefited from a fair bit of ethic sculpting. However, without the glue and sculpting the climb wouldn’t be there….

I’m pretty sure Ewbank is the redpoint grade. Onsight is too variable and too dependant on how you do the moves.

I think i had something in my eye. must have been the hellacious bush-bash.

Did any of the “hardmen” who visted Llama Rock try the awkward crack left of Turbo Crack ? There are 20’s then there are 20’s !

The project (belay bolts on top) on the smooth steep wall right of the chasm at Llama Rock has been top roped cleanly and is worth a go too.

Also, the Fedayn at Connoisseur Rocks is worth a go if you can do laps on Turbo Crack.

Neil – Do you happen to know if the RHS of the arete that is opposite the thin 18 slab at Llama has been done? There is a 17-18 slab/arete climb on the LHS of it, but the RHS has a thin crack and carrot bolt near the top. Havnt seen any mention of it anywhere. Looks like it would go mostly on gear and be 22-24ish.

We top-roped the proj you mentioned clean although climbing the tree made us cry. The flake at the top creaked ominously….

Here I am, sitting in Oman, 40C outside, so jelaous you guys are climbing. At least I can write…

I put up some climbs around Perth, I always tried to grade for onsight but this is a hopeless task. Imagine this: I spot a line, rap it, clean it, bolt it, dog it, then get it. By then I know every hold and move pretty well. So now I try to step back and ask myself “how hard is this for someone who is not familiar with this?” So I tend to have a stab and then change opinion based on feed back. (I do try to climb any natural trad routes on sight.) Another thing is that I am 190 cm tall, weigh 88kg and have +3″ ape factor but also a weak grip (can’t boulder for shit). So how is the same route going to feel to someone who is 155cm, 50kg…etc. Here lies the problem.

And not only that, climbs vary so much, I mean almost anyone can train up to a 24 Kalbarri route but a 24 granite slab (think Ron’s efforts at Mt Cuthbert). So the grading system accuracy is +/-1 grade even if the rock/cliff is similar (depending on who grades it) and comparing grades across granite and sandstone and dolomite and limestone and cracks and slabs and overhangs…..well, you see what I mean.

To me the purpose of the grade is to tell the climber if this climb is for them, i.e. if you lead 18 then you don’t want to be on runout 24. The rest is detail, but still worth giving opinions. Grades do change and guidebooks get updated.

I have climbed around the world and found that 24 is 5.11d and 7a, just like most guidebook tables say (not Shane’s guidebooks, the tables in those are hopeless). So Perth is not undergraded or requiring a blanket regrade. When I did the last Perth guidebook I asked people for comments on grades and anything and got maybe 20 comments, so there were no strong feelings about that then.

End of lunch break. Enjoy climbing, lucky scumbags.

Ross

Nice one Ross, i agree 24 is 5.11d and 7a (depending on the area). Sorry to harp on about this one, but there is no way that FL+J or Heavy Metal would get 11d.

Seeing as though youre over there – have you climbed at Wadi Rum in Jordan yet?