- This topic has 22 replies, 1 voice, and was last updated 13 years ago by Robin.
18 November 2010 at 12:00 AM #8697RobinGuest
Checked out Mountain Quarry on the weekend. Was planning on doing routes, but then I saw a boulder and got excited. Didn’t look like it had been climbed on – had to pull off some loose rock. But it turned out to be pretty good. Slightly overhanging, fingery climbing with a few dynamic moves.
So I’ve knocked up a guide to the lines on the boulder. By the way, if anyone has climbed any of these before, let me know if you’d like me to change the names. Anyway, hope this is useful!
And here’s a pic of me pulling on to the central V6.
For those in search of easier problems, there are two other boulders in the quarry that looked to offer a small number of problems, though I didn’t get round to trying them.
The back boulder gets shade in the morning, the others get shade after midday.18 November 2010 at 12:00 AM #8698MikeKeymaster
The most obvious boulder in possibly the most frequented climbing area in Perth and you think you are doing first ascents?18 November 2010 at 12:00 AM #8699RobinKeymaster
I’d be surprised if no one had climbed on this boulder, but like I said, I pulled off loose rock to climb some of the problems. Plus, I did talk to a couple of keen locals who weren’t aware of it.
But that’s not really the issue. It doesn’t matter to me whether they are first ascents, just thought I’d contribute by making a little guide to what’s there. Like I said, names can be changed – the main thing is that the info is out there, and will hopefully be of use to some people.18 November 2010 at 12:00 AM #8700ShannonKeymaster
Problems 1 and 4 definately been done, don’t know about the others.
cheers18 November 2010 at 12:00 AM #8701MikeKeymaster
looks good! i agree… put stuff up and if people want to change the names later that is fine. well done Robin!19 November 2010 at 12:00 AM #8702jasonKeymaster
good job mate. i have climbed at mountain quarry and never noticed this! there is also similar pickings at stratums quarry. probably a few more problems and one of them starts inside a cave that has been created by two boulders leaning against each other. then you climb out to top out. is fun but arm orientated. there is other stuff there too. also some boulders up on the top of the quarry as well.19 November 2010 at 12:00 AM #8703MikeKeymaster
Dont get me wrong, Im all for people being keen and making guides for bouldering areas.
Im just wary of this “ill just name it and if someone has done it then i will change it” culture that we are somehow ok with.
To me it doesnt show respect or humility, especially when you are talking of such obvious areas as mountain quarry and boulder rock. As is the norm in climbing culture, naming a climb or problem is implicit to a first ascent claim.
Lord knows we need bouldering guides just go easy on the wanton renaming/claiming of problems that have most likely been done.19 November 2010 at 12:00 AM #8704jasonKeymaster
if the first people to climb it couldn’t be bothered to name it or tell anyone i don’t see a problem with someone else doing it. i know people who cant be bothered naming a climb once they have done it cause it is not important to them. they just wanna climb.
i don’t like the culture that has been created that people become so protective of a piece of rock they climbed. did they put it there? did they make the shapes on it? we make guides so that others can enjoy what we have. nothing more, nothing less. i understand about giving people recognition but if they really wanted it they would most likely put the things in place to get it (ie… i climbed so and so, heres the beta)19 November 2010 at 12:00 AM #8705Mike (R)Keymaster
I second Jason.
And I thought Robin sounded both respectful and humble. “it doesn’t matter to me whether they are first ascents” “the main thing is that the info is out there”.20 November 2010 at 12:00 AM #8706Luke BKeymaster
Cheers Robin, we need more of this! I suspect a lot of people have messed about on this boulder, but as Jason said, if they didn’t feel like telling the rest of us about it, I see no problem with Robin giving them some tentative names and grades. An FA is only meaningful if you’ve reported it ‘somewhere’, otherwise it’s no good to anyone!25 November 2010 at 12:00 AM #8707RobinKeymaster
Yeah, I don’t want to step on any toes. Glad people are keen to hear about it – this is a great piece of rock, and I think it deserves to be popular.
Here’s a little video of the central line:26 November 2010 at 12:00 AM #8708WTF?!Keymaster
It seems your shoot first ask questions later approach is the problem.
Perhaps taking the time to ask the questions as to whether things have been climbed and waiting to hear an answer from those who are in the know would be better?
And doen’t every route at MQ have its fair share of loose rock?
On another note, there seems to be some MQ FA claims on 8a.nu? but you dont care about whether or not they are FA’s right?
It’s cool to be psyched and great to see someone getting shit done, but I’m with Mike in playing the humility card. Its probably a good thing that Perth climbers are such an apathetic bunch as you would get a proverbial reeming for trying this on over east.
seth28 November 2010 at 12:00 AM #8709RobinKeymaster
Well, to be honest, given the rock I pulled off, I doubt the harder lines have been climbed. I did ask some knowledgeable folk, but no one knew of anything other than the easier lines on this boulder. It’s possible they have been climbed, but thus far seems unlikely. I don’t really care whether they are FA’s or not, but no one has yet convinced me they aren’t. I ticked the FA box on my online log because that’s what they seemed like, not because that was my reason for climbing them.
Back in England I’ve done tons of new problems in much more popular areas than Mountain Quarry. The peak district is heaving with climbers, yet obvious bits of rock do get overlooked, and it happens all the time. Occasionally people pipe up and say they’ve done it before, but not all that often.
What seems to be happening here is the old “it was probably done before” line. Apart from the two easier problems, no one is yet saying they know of any previous ascents. In my experience, this usually means they haven’t been done. But if someone wants to retro-claim, that’s fine.
Those are my thoughts on the FA issue, but like I said, I really don’t mind – mostly I just wanted to make a little guide because I liked the boulder and wanted to share the experience. The majority of responses seem to be positive, which is great.
I went back the other day and climbed the problems on the other two boulders. Some nice moves, and yes I know these boulders have been climbed on. I’ve knocked up a guide for those who are interested. No names this time!
Happy climbing!28 November 2010 at 12:00 AM #8710ChrisKeymaster
Therein lies the problem (pun) Robin. Most people would look at all the factors and assume the problems have been done.
You however have done the opposite. If you apply the same logic to a climb in the quarry, it is understandable why people are getting excited.29 November 2010 at 12:00 AM #8711RobinKeymaster
Not many people climb dynamic boulder problems on loose holds. That’s the main reason I think they probably haven’t been done. If the rock was all solid, I would have assumed otherwise. If anyone knows of someone who has climbed them, then I’m happy to admit I am wrong. It’s not a big issue, and a shame some people feel it’s the most interesting thing to discuss.
Here are some pics of the other boulders
farm5.static.flickr.com/4092/5216554720_53dbbd10a5_b.jpg29 November 2010 at 12:00 AM #8712EmilKeymaster
Yep, I watched Andy Lampard spend a morning on that boulder 2 years ago while we engaged with his nemesis – quarry climbing on rope.
Safe to say that if you answer yes to any of the following questions, it’s unlikely you will be doing a FA:
* Do people climb regularly at that area?
* Has Andy Lampard ever been there?
* Has Jay and crew been there?
* Is there chalk on protected holds?
* Was it a Chris Jones haunt back in the day?
Loose rock, especially in the quarry means little. In the two areas of question here – MQ and Boulder Rock, I truely doubt there are FAs still to do. I know that last year Andy made it his mission to do all the possible sit starts at Boulder Rock.
Im not trying to get fussy on the FA issue but i tend to agree with Seth et al. Good on you for being keen, writing guides and actually bouldering but assuming that you are doing FAs until proven otherwise is doing it backwards i think.
Shame that so few people are engaging on the topic. i think that there are many opinions on the subject out there and it would be good to have them heard.
On a similar vein – what is up with the white arrows at walyunga? I know there is a precedent for marking problems in perth but 2 inch white arrows are a little obtrusive. Especially on problems that would have been done already…..29 November 2010 at 12:00 AM #8713RobinKeymaster
Thanks Emil. Good info and a constructive reply. I have talked to a few keen locals, and you are the first who has ever seen anyone on that boulder. Given it was Andy, I’m sure he cleaned up. (Though some problems have altered – eg. the V8 traverse would have been much easier as where there used to be a loose jug, there is now a small crimp). Shame he didn’t leave a record, as it would be nice to discuss grades and beta.
Hopefully this thread will result in some more action at MQ. I’d be interested to hear people’s opinions on the problems, and happy for people to tell me how wrong I was about the grades!29 November 2010 at 12:00 AM #8714Mike (R)Keymaster
It was me (and a couple friends) who put a few white arrows on some boulders at Walyunga. I agree, I made the first couple arrows too big and then a made the next couple a bit smaller. I just did them with a bit of whiteout so next time I am there I will fix them and make them less obtrusive.
As for the problems being done already how would people know? Unless there was a video (we knew of “Bee Wasp” “Tall Arete” and two unnamed problems from Andy’s Crankdown site), a description on this site, a mini guide or even some little white arrows it’s hard to know if anything has been done or exactly where it is. Granted, the arrows weren’t little. Sorry. I’ll remedy that. We didn’t put arrows at the four problems we had seen on Crankdown and the arrows were more to show where a problem was than to claim a FA.
The little arrows (and birds) at Dreaded made it easy to find where the problems were. This was what we were going for. Saw them at Kalamunda too (but some had almost faded away).
I know you’ve done work on a few bouldering mini guides Emil (Mt Cooke, Millars, others?) so thanks. We really like using them.
Now we know that Andy had done some of the stuff the Robin showed in his guides… but if he hadn’t posted any pictures or told anyone about it no one would know anything. I still reckon make the guides, put up the pictures, discuss stuff and if someone says they’ve done it before then fine. No biggie. The aim is to get people climbing more.
Mike1 December 2010 at 12:00 AM #8715jasonKeymaster
i think we have lost track a bit of what is going on here. nowhere has robin claimed any FA’s. there are none written on any on his guides. he simply named a problem. does that constitute claiming a FA? he has reinforced it over and over that it is no big deal to him yet people continue to push this issue. this is why nothing gets done. people are too scared to offend or be wrong. where is the community in that? don’t we claim to be a climbing community? helping each other out with beta! If perth is so climbed out why are we only now starting to see the info for the different areas. i know there have been some pioneers and i for 1 am very thankful for them. we only have what we have because they put in the effort to find it, develop it then let it be known. i understand what you guys are saying about history and credit and respect and i agree with you 100%. if i started climbing all over boulder rock and claiming it as my own that would be inappropriate. that is not what is happening here.
i think ive dribbled enough!1 December 2010 at 12:00 AM #8716RobinKeymaster
Jason, I did tick the FA box on my personal log, which Seth seems to have discovered. But no, I never actually claimed an FA, and I don’t really care one way or the other.
I do think problems should have names, and I don’t know if it is different in Australia, but in England there is a long tradition of guidebook creators naming unnamed problems, whilst also offering to rename if the first ascentionist steps forward. Names give problems an identity and make them easier to talk about.1 December 2010 at 12:00 AM #8717sethKeymaster
Yeah 8a has a little list of recent FAs on its front page…
Generally in Australia the FA names the problem/route for the most part.
I tend to agree that if the FA doesnt name it and others do and the name sticks then thats cool. Its better to refer to something by name than by number. However, I think that its best to be sure before you do though, ask around, ask the right people etc. Its no good asking the gym crew etc if they know about an area like Walyunga for example if theyhave never been there or have no interest in bouldering. There is plenty of reference to the people that have been the pioneers on this site and as such it shouldnt be too hard to get in touch with them if you are interested in what they might have done previously.
Anyway, this is what it has come to: arguing about FAs on a boulder in a quarry. Perth climbing at its best…1 December 2010 at 12:00 AM #8718NeilKeymaster
Are there any carrots on this boulder ?
You do realise that every 3-5years DEC uses a bulldozer to push that boulder onto a different side which means all the problems change ?2 December 2010 at 12:00 AM #8719RobinKeymaster
They move the boulders around? Bizarre.
Anyway, enough FA discussion. Here’s another short video, this one made by cliffhangerB.