- This topic has 11 replies, 1 voice, and was last updated 4 years, 8 months ago by George.
I’ve heard that a line of bolts have been squeezed inbetween Inner Space and Totally Awesome. Not sure I can believe it seeing how close those two very fine trad lines are… can anyone confirm if I’ve heard right and if its true I wonder if the person is brave enough to let us know what they were thinking. I hope I’ve been misinformed.LanceGuest
I bolted the line.. its called ‘The space between’ grade 20 and climbs really well..
it doesn’t affect the two fine trad lines at all, give it a shot and let us know your thoughts after you’ve seen it and climbed it. 🙂KrishGuest
Thanks Lance will do got a bung shoulder at the mo so it may take me a while to get to it but if I hear of others giving it a go I’ll let you know.RyanGuest
Had the chance to give this route a go on Tuesday. Unfortunately i don’t have a very positive report. While the climbing is nice enough it is mostly a retro bolt of Waterfalls Second Folly Direct. Of the five bolts, the first two and the fifth are directly on it’s line and very close to easy trad placements (i put in cams). The third and fourth bolts do tackle some new territory and are not near trad placements so are somewhat justified.
Personally i don’t feel the route is warranted but I’ll leave it up for discussion, if i was to do anything it would be to remove the first, second, and fifth bolt.
As for grade, i would suggest 18. Easier than both totally awesome and one for the road.KrishGuest
Was down that way today and I was able reach with little difficulty the third and fourth bolts from the line of Waterfalls Second Folly, so while it opens up a little new territory it could also be regarded as an almost complete retro-bolt (I say that as the top headwall has not been bolted). If you stick right of the third and fourth bolts that section could be regarded at 20, but good holds are within easy reach just left definitely bring it down to 18.LanceGuest
thanks for the feedback. I definitely did not intend to retrobolt an existing trad line. I have climbed WSF and TA on either side and considered my line a stand-alone route tackling a previously unclimbed band of quality rock through the middle. It is hard to protect naturally. sure – you could step left or right and place some gear and long slings into WSF or TA, but then it would not climb particularly well..
I also considered the fact that there are heaps of bolts all over the top ledge, three bolted routes to the right and two to the left, so its hardly a hardman trad climbing area alone.
I am happy to chop the route and remove all traces of the bolts if the general consensus is negative. So far 2 negatives to my one positive is winning the debate. I’ll follow this post for another couple of weeks to see any further For or Against comments.
Agreed on grade. I originally climbed it slightly right and it feels like awesome thin grade 20 climbing, but having seen a few people climb it since, the tendency is to move slightly left on the blank and this would be considered grade 18 for sure.
Thanks all, let me know to chop or not to chop! I definately don’t wanna be the guy who retrobolted a classic grade 15 trad route! 😮
I’m also not keen to leave only 1 or 2 bolts in the blank crux area, and create a mixed route that wanders left and right onto other lines to find gear. My feeling is if I’m putting in 2 bolts, I might as well put in a few more and create a consistent sport climb rather than a wandering mixed route. Especially given the close proximity to neighbouring routes.
Thanks Lance the first two bolts are on the line of WSF direct start (at 17), which is the way I’ve seen most people climb the route. True to say the first bolt doesn’t interfere with the original start.GeorgeGuest
Just an observation from someone who hasn’t climbed the line, but did bolt one of the routes to the right.
Lance – please take this in the spirit of constructive feedback, nothing more.
I don’t believe the fact that there are anchor bolts at the top (DEC – for commercial group primarily) and some mixed bolt routes to the right means open justification for squeezing in new routes. I don’t believe either of those points are what we are speaking about here.
1. Does it add bolts to existing routes – whether at the start, middle or finish. Waterfalls Second Folly Direct?
2. Does it detract from existing natural/mixed routes. If you can reach the bolts easily from existing trad lines, the answer sounds like “yes”?.
to me it sounds like a 2 bolt middle variation breaking from existing lines. I don’t think the adding more to create a consistent sport lines outweighs point 1. ?.
just my two cents.LanceGuest
No probs guys.
It seems nobody shares my enthusiasm for this cutting edge and visionary route!
I went down to chop it this week but the place was crawling with 2 x coachloads of abseilers.. Not the ideal time to bust out the power tools..
I’ll get back there soon and chop it.Martin DangerGuest
love the line! Needs to be made clear that the flake on the left is not in (which I thought was obvious from the way the bolts go almost straight up! Crimpy, balancy and mentally challenging not to go for the flake as a save me. I’ve added it to TheCrag but will have to edit the deets. Can you also have a look and make sure the description is correct?TimGuest
I haven’t been down to Wilyabrup since this was bolted but I’m usually down there quite a lot. I climb trad predominantly on that wall as I’m pretty new to it, but I was pretty happy when I heard about a new bolted line at that grade. I’ll reserve my judgment until I get to give it a go but, for what it’s worth, thanks for taking the time to put something up. I’d personally appreciate it if we could give the line a bit of time and see what people think over a year or so, if for no other reason than I’d like to climb it!GeorgeGuest
I dont think the quality of the climbing is in question here, it is about crag bolting ethics.
Lance has committed to removing the bolts on this basis.