from what you have said … it seems you wish to lead as per normal (meaning you have a belayer) and that the problem is that there is no protection..

rather then that you wish to rope solo, which is an entirely different kettle of fish.

if the problem is that there is no protection, then what you have suggested is entirely feasiable and has been done many times before. you tie off a static line and put loops in at regular intervals.. (i like the suggestion for the alpine butterfly), then you lead as per normal on a dynamic line, clipping the loops as you go. then your belayer follows and cleans.

If what you wish to do is more of a roped solo… then like dave i suggest you do a lot more reading and talk to others who have done this … as i have no experience doing this i cant offer any advice

I’m pretty sure your suggesting leading with a dynamic rope as per norm and just using the static with loops to simulate say ring bolts , so I’ll assume that.

I definatley agree with using the alpine butterfly, If your not sure how to tie it check this animated instruction http://www.une.edu.au/unemc/alpbutt.htm

As already suggested make sure your anchor is absolutely bomber, You may also wish to anchor the bottm end so the static rope doesnt follow you up the route due to drag.

By the way… Is this an acceptable method to claim first accent ???

Roo

Mark,

Thanks for the offer, but we *might* get into some trouble if we went bolting every 30m climb that doesn’t already have bolts.

Some climbs I’ve seen have cracks running almost the entire height and look pretty easy to protect with trad gear. So there may be one or two trad climbers out there who would object to bolting these routes.

I’m interested in Roo’s question about claiming a first accent. It seems a bit like cheating but it’s probably no worse than abseiling, placing bolts and then leading.

G’day,

It is worth pointing out that 60m slabs can be toproped with a 60m rope, not 30m slabs. Of course the belayer needs to sit on top.

Since the difference between leading and toproping is basically COMMITMENT, hence leading with preplaced static is style-wise same as toproping (get scared=grab static line=no commitment) and would be considered a FTRA (first toproped ascent) not FA (first ascent). Practical implication is that someone can bolt it and climb it with bolts in the future and rename it and get their name on the climb and you are forgotten history-wise.

Of course that does not mean that you cannot do this and have fun, as history-wise we will all be forgotten in a hundred years or so anyway.

If there is cracks for trad gear then WHY THE F%$K do you need to be leading it with a static line to clip into??

Hey Ash,

If you want to have a go at trad come out with us, Theres usually 3 or 4 of us with 3 full racks.. more rope than you can jump over.. We’re going to Pinjarra on Saturday if your keen ?? I’ll have my trusty static rope in the car… next to my hammer drill… 🙂

I think the idea of using the static to protect a climb is a great idea! 🙂

I am still trying to build up my rack and I often find I’m missing the one or two bits of pro that are essential to protecting the climb I want to do. And I’m tired of always top belaying because of it. This way if you don’t have a trad rack you can get heaps of leading experience while you buy your bits’n’bobs. Or if you’ve stumbled onto a new area it’s a good way to have a bit of fun to see if it’s worthwhile finding someone who can bolt ‘non-trad’ routes or has a full trad rack.

I don’t think you should be able to claim an FA using this method of “pro” though.

Roo,

No flak on hexes for those learning to lead. Rack of nuts and a few hexs will see you up most lines. And for $150 should get you enough…

Ash – no offense buddy but the lines you were describing sounded as they were not able to be protected with natural gear. I just question the ethics and reasoning behind an assent with a fixed line when gear is there?

As there are a few reading this thread that may be interested in hexes I have 7 or 8 hexes for sale that I no longer use… size 1-7, slinged (may need to be retied as they are pretty short) $30 bucks the lot… Just leave a contact email and I will get in touch…

Don’t have a digital camera. But if you climb at rockface I can bring them in….

Hey Ash,no offence mate but i think you need to see an instructor.I saw this happening at willys about 2 months ago and i must say i was quite horrified and for several reasons.Ethics being the first.In no way does clipping knots on a fixed line equate to a lead ascent.rule of thumb…if you are not prepared to take the drop then dont try to lead the climb.if you dont have enough gear or confidence,come back when you have.i am glad someone mentioned top belay.I am a guide in margaret river and work at willys 100+ days per year and climb there alot to.I could not count the amount of times I have seen people running their top rope(yoyo style)over the cliff edge because they didnt have enough static.What are they thinking?Always keep top belay in mind if top roping on taller cliffs.Safety is the other biggie.If I were to do this I would tie a fig8 in the end and alpines above and use adequate edge protection.but would treat it a bit like clipping dodgy carrots.It could be exciting!I really had to bite my tongue when i saw this happening at willys the other month.It is definately not cool and has potential to become commonplace.

Hi Mick,

Thanks for the contribution. I do not understand some of your comments. Ethics do not come into it since I would not be damaging the climb. As long as I never claim to have completed the climb in the same fashion as the FA, why should other people have ethical problems with my protection? Even if I did make such a claim, it would only make me a twit, and shouldn’t harm the climbing experience for anyone else.

As for the loops failing, how are you envisioning this happening (this is what I really want to know and why I posted the first message)? If you think the rope might snap then I’ll quit climbing today. Or is there a way the knots can untie? Personally I cannot imagine the knots coming undone in such a way that would disconnect the quickdraw, but that’s why I asked the question (because I do not know everything).

Also, where does the rope-on-rope friction come from?

Cheers