Home Forums First Ascents The horror the horror

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 79 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #7018 Reply
    Were-Rabbit
    Guest

    Bounce….bounce…..Another one bites the dust….and another ones gone and another ones gone….Another carrot brothers route bites the dust……bounce……bounce

    #7019 Reply
    Shannon
    Member

    So which one?

    #7020 Reply
    bugs bunny
    Member

    oh the horror the horror.. no more carrots to eat…

    #7021 Reply
    Were-Rabbit
    Member

    Bounce…..There were so many to choose from! I thought it would be nice to be random and keep the lads thinking. Clues may come later if not already discovered…..

    #7022 Reply
    Were-Rabbit
    Member

    Come join me bugs on a rampage…….

    #7023 Reply
    were-hare
    Member

    were-rabbit how about you munch some carrots tht the 2 morons have put up and shove it up the bums to teach them not to use them

    #7024 Reply
    Were-Rabbit
    Member

    Munching as fast as I can. Help would be appreciated. Of course remember to remove whole line so that some poor unexpecting climber doesn’t do half a route and run out of dodgy carrots!

    #7025 Reply
    Pee-eater
    Member

    You take my carrots I pick your Pees

    #7026 Reply
    Jeff M
    Member

    Carrots = Unacceptible pro

    Remove carrots = safer routes and happy climbers

    P bolts = very acceptible pro

    Remove p bolts = less safety, wrecked rock and lots of unhappy climbers.

    I think carrots should be removed, BUT replaced with better bolts.

    Although no new carrots should be getting placed, apart from the fact most of us hate them, DEC have said NO to them being placed on land they govern.

    So really from this point no more carrots should be placed (grown?)

    With access issues already with the DEC you would think the smart thing to do would be to stop placing carrots and systematically replace the existing ones.

    Anyhow, which P’s would you rip? Could be the person’s who ripped yours but could be someone who supports you too, gotta discriminate or you are just a terrorist…

    #7027 Reply
    Peater
    Member

    Hey, this is war

    #7028 Reply
    ed nepia
    Member

    nah mate the wars over, charlies back in the jungle and you can go outside and play and put your war fantasies away

    #7029 Reply
    Emil
    Member

    Its one thing to consult the FA and remove their bolts so they can be replaced with something better.

    It is a very different thing to surreptitiously remove bolts and then not replace them. If someone did that to one of my lines I would be pissed.

    To risk sounding twee – two wrongs do not make a right. If you dont like their carrots, at least replace them. To do anything less is juvenile vandalism that is bound to incite a situation that I do not think Were-Rabbit or those in his/her warren have considered.

    #7030 Reply
    Were-Rabbit
    Member

    Bounce…..Removing carrots that from what I’m hearing are unwanted by the climbing community and DEC, is far from vandalism when considering those who are installing them as well as chipping and drilling the f..k out of the rock. No one else seems to care enough to approach these guys so I’m more than keen to waste their time as they obviously don’t give a f..k. Emil, You do care and put in good protection which makes you different to them. Bounce…..

    #7031 Reply
    Ross Weiter
    Member

    There is no DEC directive on carrots. DEC refers to the CAWA code of bolting ethics (see this website) which does not mention carrots, it says that: “Any bolt installer must be competent and employ only suitable fixtures and materials of sufficient strength.” This is subjective to the type of climb and rock…..but I agree that carrots are unsuitable for the blast-shattered sections of rock in quarries.

    The ethic I stick to is one of respect for other people’s work, no matter how much I personally disagree with it. Please consider it. It is not ideal, but I cannot think of a better system. I cannot imagine that J&M would object to having carrots replaced with GIMBs or rings. The WereRabbitt is most likely a young bloke; when he gets older he will likely regret his actions.

    #7032 Reply
    Emil
    Member

    Agreed Ross. WR – If you are referring to DEC, who is referring to CAWA Bolting Ethics, this also reads “Existing routes should not be interfered with in any way without the permission of the first ascentionist”

    #7033 Reply
    Were-Rabbit
    Member

    DEC info came directly from Tocs (CAWA)posted message!? It seems amazing that no one in Perths climbing community seems to care enough to do something about an issue that a majority agrees with here in Perth, not to mention the current world wide movement in respect to bolting practices. Wrong wrong wrong! They have no respect for Perth climbers and I none for their routes.

    #7034 Reply
    Were-Rabbit
    Member

    Toc, 24 Jan 2008

    Carrots are banned on DEC land.

    Bolts are to be placed to CAWA guidelines, (DEC’s decision), and CAWA guidelines do not include carrots, (but they do allow GIMBs, P bolts and good quality expansion bolts.

    Cheers,

    Toc.

    #7035 Reply
    ed nepia
    Member

    very interesting debate ..

    chipped routes arent vanadalism, removing substandard bolts is….hmmmmm

    anyway the cawa bolting ethic whilst commendably serious in tone actually offers no STANDARD which developers can conform to

    ‘only competent persons’??? Ok so who says your competent? being able to use a hammer drill dosnt denote competence at bolt placement does it?

    ‘suitable fixtures of sufficient strength’ how vague do you want to be? is this deliberately vague so as to absolve cawa of perceived liability in the event of a bolt failure-accident?

    perhaps this vagueness actually tacitly condones the continued use of carrot bolts because the developers can claim ‘competence and sufficient strength’ based on no more then their own experience rather then a more rigorous standard?

    yes replacing carrots is a good idea BUT why stay quiet when more are placed in the cliffs? seems like a lot of people dont like carrot bolting but very few are willing to take a stance rather then advising others to replace them …

    Why not insist that all developers use a standard set of anchor types and then loudly applaud them when they do

    #7036 Reply
    richard
    Member

    In the past DEC has had regional and variable view on bolts. The Margaret River crowd got involved and placed CALM bolts and set up an inspection regime. The Perth office had a bad experience with bolts at Wellington Dam. In my dealings with them a few years ago it was then stated by Perth CALM that they would have no involvement with fixed protection. Where pressed they may refer to the CAWA bolting guideline. At present if approached specifically on bolting standards their most likely response may be to prohibit all bolting of any kind. I have recently heard that one of the active rebolters has been tracked down by DEC and ordered to cease and desist. In our zeal to become defacto DEC bureaucrats we may succeed in getting all bolting banned. Even rebolting.

    #7037 Reply
    ed nepia
    Member

    so your advice is? ….

    #7038 Reply
    richard
    Member

    do not expand the debate to include DEC

    #7039 Reply
    ed nepia
    Member

    i agree

    then what?

    #7040 Reply
    pete
    Member

    come around and spank you for being an argumentative noob

    #7041 Reply
    ed nepia
    Member

    promises promises …

    #7042 Reply
    Ross
    Member

    I guess the guidelines are vague as CAWA has seen itself as a climbers “association” not a regulatory body, Ed.

    Having said that, I would support a review and tightening up of the bolting guidelines as things are too vague now. But neither would I support a prescriptive “regulation”.

    Will bring it up at next comm mtg to gauge the vibe. Would you like to come Ed? Email me.

    I guess people who then bolt against an established and documented “Guideline” would be fairly open to a law suit in case of an accident. The thought of losing some family assets may be a sufficient deterrent.

    WR – as far as I know what Toc said about carrots is incorrect, let me check it out with him.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 79 total)
Reply To: The horror the horror
Your information:




Scroll to Top