Home Forums First Ascents The horror the horror

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  • #7043 Reply
    ed nepia
    Member

    sweet, i dont think climbers associations like cawa should be regulators, god knows we have enough of those, nor produce regulations but they do have a role in promoting and advocating and informing about best practice/standards that suit local conditions

    #7044 Reply
    Were-Rabbit
    Member

    Bounce…..So with all this concern, will some of you older climbers that are possibly respected more my Matt R etc approach them with the issue of concern or shall I continue plundering their routes and spitting in their general direction? Carrot terrorism was just starters to see if the carrot brothers actually care – main course is next! I’ve seen a number of people out there drilling and bolting and as far as I read on this site these people are more than willing to help with bolting/glueing. Matt etc should use these resources to bolt their climbs if they are too cheap to pay!…Bounce….Bounce

    #7045 Reply
    were-hare
    Member

    dont forget to save some carrots to shove up their ass when you see them next

    #7046 Reply
    Were-Rabbit
    Member

    As suspected, no one once again seems to be comming forward to approach the Rossers. Always a lot of dribble on this forum and not a lot of action. Oh well….let the carrot munching continue…. Come join me Were-Hare and all fellow bunnies and furry animals!

    #7047 Reply
    ware-hare
    Member

    well let me know who you are and i will come and help

    #7048 Reply
    Were-Rabbit
    Member

    But are you a hare or a fox. Munching carrots is as easy as getting a hammer, a rope and belief in a cause. Once we all begin to want to make a difference then we can can meet as one. So until then munch those carrots – name the lines munched and we shall be rid of carrots once and for all!

    #7049 Reply
    Peater
    Member

    Pea picking on a summers night. Its adictive. Do one line, yer gotta do another.

    #7050 Reply
    Toc
    Member

    In this one, I have to accept Ross is right. However, I would expect, that a request to the land manager about nstalling a route would find that carrots were not acceptable.

    #7051 Reply
    mike
    Member

    great were-rabbit, so it sounds like youve started a tit-for-tat bolt pulling war. well done.

    #7052 Reply
    Were-Rabbit
    Member

    So lets see someone approach the Rossers Mike! As said previously, lots of dribble on this forum and not a lot of action!

    #7053 Reply
    Shannon
    Member

    Hey TOC, any chance of getting DEC to confirm a no carrots policy? Could save a lot of hassle in the long run.

    cheers

    #7054 Reply
    mike
    Member

    sounds like the fastest way to get climbing banned shannon.

    #7055 Reply
    Richard W
    Member

    Hi All,

    Been reading comments and I don’t like carrots either. I’m happy to donate Hilti HY150 and think I can access a reasonable quantity of Hilti RE500 to Matt & Jim if they wish to use GIMBS. back from Site Thursday – will bring glue with me.

    #7056 Reply
    Emil
    Member

    Hey Richard. If you can get RE500 cheap ill take a couple off your hands for sure.

    #7057 Reply
    Observer
    Member

    Hopefully wererabbitt and peater can find each other on a warm summer night, somewhere in a quarry, and away from the prying eyes, and beat the crap out of each other. May the best man win. Or are they too chicken for that? Sure, it is easier to attack the rock as it does not fight back.

    Wererabbitt expects others to confront peater on his behalf? How pathetic is that? Accidetally hit yer balls with that hammer, have you?

    I heard of a road rage accient in Houston once: After a bit of honking 2 cars stopped on side of freeway 50m apart, 2 guys got out and shot away at each other until running out of ammo. Hitting nothing, they then got back into their cars and drove off.

    #7058 Reply
    Richard W
    Member

    Hi Emil,

    I’m in construction in the mines so can get. Obviously with this wonderful debate going on I thought it may help if I donated some glue to Matt & Jim to put in GIMB’s. Hence I need to put some aside for them if they wish to change their bolting style. Obviously I prefer to use RE500. Have a good quantity of HY150 – don’t know what peoples thoughts are on this being used by the Rossers in preference to carrots? By the way how were the moves on the project?

    #7059 Reply
    E
    Member

    Richard – posted in the bolting thread so we dont hijack this fine effort.

    #7060 Reply
    Shannon
    Member

    So Mike the fastest way to get climbing banned is to get the governing access body to tell us what form of bolting is unacceptible thereby raising the safety of the climbing community as a whole?

    Richard I think Hilti 150, though not as strong as re500 is fine, as is ramset 101 and 801. all are endorsed by Safer Cliffs Australia as viable glue for bolting and lets face it they are all a hell of a lot better than carrots.

    #7061 Reply
    David
    Member

    I think the issue of competance wrt the bolter is important here. Just because its glue doesn’t make it automatically better than carrots.

    The number of glue in bolt failures due to incorrected installation in Australia is greater than the number of carrot bolt failures.

    #7062 Reply
    Emil
    Member

    ive used both HY150 and RE500 and my pref is RE500 for more practical reasons.

    *HY150 dries white and therefore is more visible (500 is dark red)

    *HY150 sets very quickly. we had some dry in the nozzle after less than a minute making a big explosion of glue when we pumped the gun.

    *RE500 looks cooler.

    *yes RE500 is more expensive but if you know the right people then, well….

    *RE500 and HY150 nozzles are not interchangeable so choose what ur going to use and stick with it.

    #7063 Reply
    Richard W
    Member

    Emil/Matt/Jim – Leaving site now. Have organised more RE500.

    #7064 Reply
    Toc
    Member

    The last thing we want is DEC deciding they are responsible for bolts.

    If DEC thinks about it, it’s also the last thing they want.

    I would support a revision of the bolting code, (this would be done slowly with input from as many climbers as possible), but can also see situations where carrots would be best practise, ie, on lead when a hand-drill is all you’ve got.

    It’s also true, glue-ins can fail, but if a climb is being bolted from abseil, you can not only install a glue-in, you can also check it.

    As most people know my grades will most likely keep me off the present chipped quarry lines. Having said that, the quarry faces are in my mind, natural, the fact they are made by dynamite doesn’t change the fact that know-one planned them. So I have always felt the ethics of chipping in the quarries was questionable, but also I felt that bolting “Skywalker” in place was questionable. Removing the dangerous blocks may have left a better line, maybe not, but at least it would have been honest. Not everyone is going to agree with this point of view, but hey, discussion is good. Better than shooting each other.

    Cheers,

    Toc

    As for Matt and Jim, I think they see themselves as purists keeping the anarchistic spirit of climbing alive, in a similar vein to the way some climbers, would put bolts just after the crux of a climb. They are not going to talk to DEC, CAWA or anybody else nor are thay likely to listen.

    By the way, did I see someone say a DEC representative had told one of the re-bolters to stop?

    #7065 Reply
    ed nepia
    Member

    thanks for that Toc

    but if your gonna hand drill a bolt on lead its just as easy to place an expansion as a carrot..and i assume these guys arent drilling on lead, by hand in the quarries?

    I’m all for supporting the subversive, but all they are subverting is a huge body of accumulated wisdom as regards placing the best possible permanent anchors. i know and climb with some very ‘out there’ climbing characters who are active new routers in every domain of climbing ice, big peaks, boulders, crags, big walls and they make huge statements of individuality with the lines they choose, how they dress, what they enjoy, their views on all sorts of issues, their relationships but none EVER would place a carrot bolt

    why not.. cause its just stupid

    make a statement by all means, a well chosen route name often does just that, but carrot bolting just makes a statement about poor judgement

    #7066 Reply
    ed nepia
    Member

    and Matt and JIm, would be good to hear what you think?

    #7067 Reply
    Toc
    Member

    Hi Ed,

    Yes.

    Problem with Matt and Jim isn’t how we see them, but how they see themselves. I wasn’t excusing them, rather offering an explanation. They know, I’m sure, everybody is pissed at them, but they’ll keep putting up chipped climbs with carrot bolts, and keep writing them on the CAWA website, using the ethics of the rest of us and the oranisation, while at the same time denying that any ethical basis should be applied to their behaviour. This is why anarchism is a political failure, though a nice idea.

    My gut feeling is they get a warm chubby from the whole thing.

    And they have done some worthwhile pioneering elsewhere, mind you still using carrots.

    I haven’t got a big stick and don’t want one either. You could say we are now paying the price for all the other chipped lines people thought were a good idea at the time. History is as always 20-20. Problem is how to get from here to where next.

    Got to go to work now.

    Cya,

    Toc.

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