This topic contains 43 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by  Ross 9 years, 6 months ago.

Viewing 19 posts - 26 through 44 (of 44 total)
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  • #7230 Reply


    might i ask what is the time frame for this draft. when will it cease to be a draft [and we get to comment on the final draft] and when is it due for submission?

    #7231 Reply


    The process is per Constitution section 6.4: the document will be finished by end of 2008. It will then be then published as draft on CAWA web page and until the next AGM where it will be voted upon by an Ordinary Resolution. Acceptance or rejection will be by a simple majority.

    #7232 Reply


    Been a while since this thread cooled down but I thought I might as well throw in a thought….

    I dont believe it is in CAWAs or any climbers best interest to include specific geographical locations in a list of ‘do not bolt here’ areas. If that is to be done, its DECs mandate.

    With all the restrictions that DEC is placing in different areas, do we need to place more of our own?

    #7233 Reply


    Hi Email,

    The areas in the draft plan are as per current DEC management plans, policies and in some case informal but clearly understood agreements (as documented in W Climber).

    In other words indeed CAWA as a body tasked with PROMOTING climbing in WA (as per Constitution) has no self-generated interest in restricting any aspect of it.

    There is a long discussion about access that goes into it that I cannot possibly verbalise here but call me on 0422 927962 after hours and we can chat, alt work 6311 6490 (I can give you home phone and save $). Thanks for comment mate, if I did not answer it then plug away.

    #7234 Reply


    hey ross, im offshore at the mo so cant call but here are a few points…

    east stirlings is currently under a grey blanket as far as i know vis-a-vis bolting. dec management plan does not ban bolts, but says they should be placed in accordance with CAWAs code of ethics.

    thus, if in the new incarnation the code says no new bolts, then by proxy so will the management plan…. if this is CAWAs intention, then thats another kettle of wriggly fish.

    also, there are many areas in wa where bolting is supposedly not allowed eg nuyts as one example. it seems that you havnt listed them all in the code, so why pick out a few?

    anyway thats a couple of points, will discuss further when i get back. cheers

    #7235 Reply


    So here we are in the new year. Is there a new draft? Do we get to see it?

    #7236 Reply

    Richard Wht

    Well, it appears the latest draft is on a link on the home page above. Looking at it , it has incorporated some of the suggested changes. It is still over-perscriptive, and leagaly dangerous, at least to the cawa committee.

    It is now a guideline, though the first sentance refers again to standards, and is very perscriptive viz

    “The CAWA Code of Conduct establishes the standards that all climbers in the State of Western Australia are required to adopt in regard to their climbing activities”

    #7237 Reply


    Nope, thats the same one that has been there for quite some time….

    #7238 Reply

    Richard Wht

    you’re right. It hasn’t changed. Maybe they’ve give up on it.

    #7239 Reply


    It will be sent to members with the written notification for the CAWA AGM that is comming up in a month or so.

    I was going to put it up on the webpage, but I’m having problems ftping it – my ISP has some weird firewall that blocks it.

    If anyone wants a copy, I can send it to them.

    Note that I’m just the messenger here – so if anyone has any issues with it, take it to the CAWA committee, not me.

    #7240 Reply


    I see through Ross’ site, though no-where on the CAWA site that the draft is done and up for discussion at the March AGM.

    Seeing as though the COC will affect all climbers, not just CAWA members, will we get to see it before the esteemed CAWA folk vote us into this code?

    #7241 Reply

    Richrd Wht

    It can’t be that big. Post it here.

    Or is it a secret?

    #7242 Reply


    Hello? Anyone there in CAWA land? Care to comment?

    #7243 Reply


    I find it interesting that people that are too mean to pay fifty bucks and join the association that represents climbers and become involved and change what they don’t like; or alternativly too lazy to start their own association that provides what they want, but then demand that CAWA provides them with free web services and give them documentation that is being developed for the paying members by volunteers before the members get it themselves.

    #7244 Reply


    Hi Numbat

    Well, actually if you read what this thread is about, whether the people are a part of CAWA or not is beside the point.

    CAWA has taken it upon itself to develop a new standard re bolting and has asked for comment from the general public. As this document will affect ALL climbers in WA, CAWA members or not, both have chosen to add comment.

    Now that the time for drafting has past, members and non members alike are asking to see the document that will affect them. As far as we can tell, this document has gone past the point where people can comment and now it is up for vote at a CAWA AGM which ostensibly is only open to CAWA members……

    If you dont see the conflict here then please let me know and I will spell it out for you.

    #7245 Reply


    Ok, so the past posts have gone ununswered and the AGM is but days away. Will we get to see the beloved draft or will we have to gatecrash the AGM to do so?

    #7246 Reply


    The final wording of the Codes, as accepted by the AGM, is now published. See links on left side of the “About CAWA” page.

    #7247 Reply


    A big improvement on the first draft. Grammar apart it’s hard to believe it was written by the same hand. Lots of benign content to comfort the masters of Calm. Not a bad job. While syntactically it still contains many unique sentences, the meaning is generally clear. There are some interesting points, it is agreed that anyone can add bolts anywhere they think a very average climber might be unsafe. See Bolt Code 10 and 8. Without discussion. This has always been true, though seldom so baldly stated. The converse has also always been true, that anyone is free to remove bolts they regard in excess of the most average climber’s safety. There may be some variation in what is regarded as a suitable level of safety for the maligned –most climbers — category. And heaven help you if you are not a most climber.

    These are not so much codes as regulations. This is indicated by the confident preface , “all climbers in WA are required to adhere to and adopt…”, no shilly shallying here, Power will no doubt be exercised by proxy, incorporating the new law into management plans and Calm regulations. Stirlings and South Coast management plans I think already require adherence to cawa codes, so transgressors could theoretically be fined many thousands of dollars. The likelihood of this happening is probably zero and it’s good to see a spirit of elasticity in the application of these laws on the latest Cawa trip. With a couple of new bolted lines going up above the tourist path in the tourist frequented Mt Frankland 12b. Long live careful interpretation of inconvenient regulations.

    Although still possibly a bit dangerous for the committee it’s good to see much of the feedback was taken into account.

    #7248 Reply


    “tourist frequented Mt Frankland” ?

    I have been at MF 10 times or so and doubt that more than 20 people would pass under the slab on any weekend day. The Albany locations get hundreds. I agree that if MF was getting the Albany numbers (ie if it was “frequented” by tourists rather than the odd one wandering in) then bolting the slabs would be a silly idea, we’d have people tripping over the belayer for a start. Risk = likelihood x consequence.

    Thanks for favourable comments otherwise. Lots of people put in lots of time, we went through 7 drafts and even at the AGM there were 5 amendments.

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