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All,
Most have probably noticed that some new routes have appeared in the quarry, this is a part of my development of the quarry for people who climb below 17. The mess I left, is currently being tidied up. There is a discussion entitled “New Climbs at Mountain Quarry”, posted on 30 June, that explains issues encountered at the time of bolting so please read this before you comment on that subject.
My aim is to put up as many routes as possible in the 11-17 range for the moment, if you have a route in mind above grade 17 please feel free to suggest it to me whether through discussion when you see me or through the forum, though your assistance will be needed in setting the route.
I believe that there is a desperate need for sub 17 grade routes in the area, mainly to get people into the sport, and more importantly to get people confident enough to try the harder stuff.
I must also say thanks to Phil for the loan of the petrol drill as well as sorry for the noise it causes while in use. Thank you too, to my little team that is helping to set and bolt the routes. Finally a big thank you for the people we have meet and asked to comment on the routes before drilling starts.
The areas I am currently planning on working are:
Blackwall / Play boy area
To the left of Skywalker wall (on the dark band)
Fuzzbucky wall
Blakwall / Play boy wall area (Left to Right description).
– A route to the right of AWA bulge. Possibly replace the anchor.
– BS. Make safe and PART bolt to make mixed trad/bolt climb if possible.
– The cave overhang area, there is a potential route to the right, though this need to be investigated further. The bolts also need to be carefully placed to minimise impact to the abseil group that use the wall.
– RB. Make safe and part bolt to make a trad/bolt route. Work is under way to make the area safe as the rock has not faired to well over time. Good rock has been found and we will make it into a good little route once it has been cleaned up a bit. From our initial looks its probably best as a summer climb after a wee clean of the cracks not recommend for a beginner trad lead!
– There is potential route to the right of BS in the opposing corner, again this would be a summer climb.
To the right of Skywalker wall (No description of the wall name but along the dark band)
– DN- Repair the route due to missing a large block at the start, though the route detailed in the guide does not correspond with bolts found, this being to the RHS at the top, any assistance on this would be appreciated?
– There is the potential for 3-4 single and multi pitch routes between TRL and DN. Some will need bolts and all would need anchors for the single pitch bit.
– TRL as above.
– At the top of the route FG, there is a terrace. Not yet explored, but there could be potential for route development there. It would be good for the exposure!
Fuzzbucky wall (Yet to be abseiled or explored in detail, this is an initial idea)
– GK/FLA. Make safe the mid section were the skull and crossbones bit is.
– Any other routes that could be achieved in the 11-17 range.
Some of the routes were put up by Mike Adams, I will give him a call/email if I can find his details on how he feels about playing with his routes any further.
As for the resin system used for bolts and anchors, I am going to go with Hilti for the anchors / tricky bolts and the resin capsules for the bolts to minimise the mess.
For routes that are harder than 17 and where faffing around with a bolt plate could result in serious injury if it goes wrong. I will, unless there is a very good reason to the contrary put a full system in. That is a bolt and plate, similar to that found in Europe. Keep that in mind when asking me to do harder routes.
As for bolting a trad climb, No, unless it is a very soft rock and repeated cam/wire placements would cause excessive erosion and thus reduce the pleasure of the climb for future generations. Not that this counts on granite.
Any constructive comments are welcome and if you see me at the wall come and have a chat,
Ash and my support team
Ash
I have a bag of hangers sitting in my cupboard. Would be quite happy to give them to you if you could use them.
Andy
Andy,
That would be fantastic!
I’ll be at the Rockface tomorrow, though as it is short notice we could arrange an alternative meet up.
Currently trying to located and talk to the people who established some of the routes in the quarry to get some feedback on my proposals, so it may be sometime until you see any actual work undertaken.
Ashley
Could you email me your address (andrewstys3@hotmail.com) and I will post them to you.
Thanks Andy
Hi Ashley,
Just a note of support for re-bolting the sub-17 lines. I visit Mountain Quarry once in a while, but always seem to be confined to the Bumble Bee corner/Playboy area 🙁
Especially the area around Thin Red Line looks very interesting – if I knew it had good bolts and belay/lower off. When you are working that section, feel free to drop me a line (hynek_bouska at hotmaildotcom). I’d love to come and look at it.
Hynek
I am going to hold a meeting at the quarry on
Sunday 15 August at 12:00 for anyone who is intrested in comming along.
Ashley
Hey Ash, just in relation to this:
“For routes that are harder than 17 and where faffing around with a bolt plate could result in serious injury if it goes wrong. I will, unless there is a very good reason to the contrary put a full system in. That is a bolt and plate, similar to that found in Europe.”
Why are you bolting with hex bolts on easy stuff and not just putting in a proper bolt in every time? Europe is not the only place where people fixed hangers and ringbolts, everywhere else in the world except perth does this.
Low grade cruisers shouldn’t have to muck about with removable bolt hangers, infact, should it not be made as safe as possible for climbers with limited experience? i.e ring bolts.
was just at mtn quarry recentlty and did some laps on the easier routes on the black slab. Could not understand why it was bolted with hex heads.
A properly and well placed bolt will be in use in the quarry for the next 20+ years. is it not worth spending and extra couple dollars and a bit of time placing a quality bolt and placing it properly?
Big can of worms that one Rich, check out some of the older posts to see why Perth is where it is in relation to bolting practices.
Firstly, glued in machine bolts (GIMBs) are high quality, safe, and will last as long as a ring bolt, so don’t go spreading paranoia.
Secondly, this is Australia and not Europe, and in Australia we happen to have Australian traditions and ethics. Ask the Yanks why don’t they they just ring bolt El Cap, what’s with all the pitons and rivers and bathooking and shit, isn’t that unsafe? And what’s the deal with Brits toproping the crap out of gritstone, then basically soloing the thing on crap gear, calling it a headpoint and making videos about it? Why not just put in a few bolts? How about putting steel cables up Bluff Knoll so the lowest common denominators can enjoy “safe climbing” up a via ferrata…they have many of those in France and Italy?
Everybody is entitled to do things their way and this one is ours. Safest thing is to stay on the couch.
Dont mind Ross, he’s a zealot. We share your pain Rich, unfortunately a few people persist with carrots and those GIMP thingies.
Perhaps if we had an online petition we could show these backward folks that WA really does not like these bolts. And hey, if using a ring bolt makes me American then Yeahahh!
Its time that we stood up to carrots and GIMPs and collectively said DO NOT WANT!
I agree with what Ross said.
Get out there and bolt some new routes you bunch of bottom feeders.
Ethics are set by those doing stuff. Not talking about stuff.
Ahh but the bottom feeders have been busy, new crags on the south coast, on going rebolting around perth, new super high quality multi pitch sport routes at peak head etc etc all done with ring bolts or bolt hanger combos
How many new routes have you bolted recently friend of Numbat?
In fact it would be accurate to say that the majority of new routes in WA are now being sensibly equipped with either ring bolts or bolt/hanger combinations
Ross is correct in saying that GIMBs are high quality but is incorrect in asserting that GIMBs are an australian ‘tradition’. In fact nearly all new routes (or re-bolted old routes ) across Australia now use either ring bolts or bolt/hangers. Comparing GIMBs to headpointing or aiding is just ridiculous.
Perth climbers are perfectly entitled to cling to their old beliefs and continue to use GIMBs but that dosnt mean that is the best practice or style. It is also perfectly fair to question the use of GIMBs when for just a little more cost and effort even better anchors can be placed.
Its also perfectly reasonable to ask why its ok to place bolt/hanger combos on harder routes but GIMBs are ok for novices.
Enough of all this hot air.
If you want climbing to survive and maybe grow in Western Australia you have to support what Ashley is doing, irrespective of what particular type of bolt he is gluing in.
With full respect to the FA’s and FFA’s, we need to make the mid grades safer around Perth to get people into ‘outdoors’ climbing and maybe one day putting up their own routes.
Ash you got my support.
I fully support Ashs initiative to equip more easy/moderate routes , he s a bloody champion!
but if he thinks only that hard routes deserve bolts with hangers then he needs to wise up
easy routes (and lets be elitist and say its less then grade 19) tend to be low angle and a fall of these can cause far more serious injury then lobbing off a steep hard test piece where you only fall into air rather then bouncing down a slab
So go for it Ash, Perth needs more easy/moderate sport routes and people like you with the drive to improve the scene
but how bout equipping all your new routes to the same high standard eh?
good onya
Hi Ash
Thanks for keeping us informed. As a new climber to the sport, I really appreciate your effort and time in putting up the new routes. I totally support this initiative.
Janice
Ash, some advice:
1) Don’t put bolts in detached blocks. You did this for some of the lower offs and at least one of the runners. Big mistake.
2) Don’t install P-bolts that stick out 15mm from the rock. This is totally not in accordance with good practice, manufacturer (FIXE) instructions or common sense. The eyelet of the bolt should be flush with the rock surface or slightly recessed. Exposing 15mm like you did makes the bolt likely to fail in bending where it meets the wall. You are likely to be the only person in Australia placing P-bolts this badly.
3) Don’t use grade 4.6 structural bolts. They are not stainless steel and are only marginally better than uncoated mild steel bolts. It is rather hypocritical to use these when you harp on about the perceived lack of safety of other bolting methods.
4) Your glue – what are you using ? I am concerned that it is not suitable. Many of the bolts could be rotated with the spanner end of my nut tool indicating the glue is not strong enough or you have not correctly cleaned the hole or glued the bolt. Once again this is an area of MAJOR concern.
I suggest you get some proper lessons from someone who knows how to bolt and you start using correct materials (stainless steel) and a glue that has a proven history of safe use in WA (e.g RE500 or HIT150 etc).
Mmmm…it’s all been said before. As for types of bolts, it is personal choice…..and a whole bunch of other considerations: safety, visual, difficulty, tradition. Just for the record, I have used GIMBs maybe 70% of the time, but also expansion bolts and ringbolts (never carrots). The people who push “Solution X” just dont understand the topic.
Since this stuff keep popping up, I will try to write a balanced review of the issues and we’ll stick it somewhere on the CAWA page so any “new bolters” can have a think about it. At the end of the day, people can consider this and then make up their own mind, it’s a free world.
Mmm…more reading about bolting I hear you think 🙂
I think numbat’s mum grew up being condemned one too often with “don’t, don’t, don’ts!”
If you’re so hot under the collar, then I suggest you join Ash and put some routes in yourself!
There are no official published standards about bolting in WA. Until there is an established forum, your comments don’t count and this is not the thread for it. Until then whoever puts up routes, regardless of equipment is doing us a service and keeping the rest us informed.
Numbat’s mum, you seem to like to rant! All words and no action.
Ash, keep up the good work!
When it comes to bolting. Ignorance is not an excuse!
We’re free to put bolts in, and to take them out. If N’s Mum has found them to be that bad she could just remove them.
Ross write a balanced review on bolting? That made me laugh.
Ross and George, are technically excellent bolters, if a bit unimaginative. They also provide unending entertainment in setting up a clash of bolting styles affording cathartic release to all the angry people in Perth. Ashley’s bolts maybe less good. Fortunately these are cawa bolts so there will be lots of people to pay for pain and suffering if any of them pop.
CAWA does NOT support bolting.
CAWA does provide guidance, though not binding, CAWA therefore has nothing to do with the bolting that has been undertaken.
WTF!!!
Someone points out that this dude’s bolts aren’t kosher and could endanger people’s safety and folks ignore it and tell him to keep up the “good” work?!
This is buuuullshit Mr Han Man!
Stoked that someone is psyched to grow climbing for the people but to do so without due care is scary.
Cawa officials using the cawa website to organise bolting. There’s not much daylight between these bolts and cawa. Simple statements to the contrary wouldn’t carry much weight.
Still these are competent people. I’m sure the bolts’ll be repositioned securely.
